higher level experts do you build a Worker first or something else?

[MrG]

Hello,

I am generally playing Prince at the moment and I have a question.

Historically up to prince I tend to build a worker first, whilst researching bronze working then chopping like crazy to build a warrior another worker a second warrior and finally a settler.

However I realise this isn't necessarily the optimal way of growing your city.

Consequently I'm currently trying (on Prince remember) to build warriors and other things until I get to a size 3 or four capital thenbuilding two workers (and chopping) a settler. I then move up to my happiness limit for population and then use the capital as a settler/worker farm.

What I really want to know is which (if any) of these is the better bet.

I know it depends on the start and resources but surely someone can give me a general idea of what gives me the best chance to

1) Grow my city
2) produce defensive units
3) chuck out a settler
4) get off to a good start

Apologies for the general nature of the question, but I want a general answer

 

[oyzar]

Build a worker is almost always best first. then you focus on growth and getting those settlers out there eventually though it might be somewhat dependent on the start(close neighbour fighting for the copper spot earlier settler is crucial most often you can easily delay the settler a little while growing the capital onto improved titles before churning out settlers and workers at happy cap.

 

[MrG]

Ta, exactly the advice I was looking for.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Worker first is always best except:

1) When your worker would have nothing to do because you start with useless techs.

2) You have seafood and fishing available in which case workboat first.

3) You are HC and planning a Quecha rush.

Growing to size three doesn't help much if all you are working is unimproved tiles. The difference in working improved tiles is significant and you want it as early as possible.

 

[r_rolo1]

I read a loooong time ago a article for SMAC about what was the best opening and there was a briliant and highly detailed analysis form a poster whose name I can't remember now, stating that building a former ( the Smac conterpart of the Civ series worker ) was almost always the best move, because improved terrain yielded much more than unimproved one, allowing a better empire growth due to the exponential reveneue of the early extra yields ( can build first colony pod ( settler ) / military faster, that allows more cities, that can build..... ). I never saw a analysis of that kind for civ IV, but I think that the result would be almost the same....

 

[duende29]

The usual is Worker first, and then there's the exceptions mentioned by the people before me. Usually dense forested starts call for Warriors first since you can't do much until BW.

 

[DigitalBoy]

I never do worker first, but maybe that's because I play Alexander, whose workers can only build camps right out the gate. I adore workboat first though. <3

 

[Gliese 581]

Yes only build a worker first if he has something to do. And improving one tile and then idle is no good either. But most of the time you start out with at least one worker tech and then you can research another. Get bronze working early. One of the best starts imo is when you can get a food resource (farm, pasture or work boat) and then start chopping forests with your worker.
My most common build is worker, warrior/scout, warrior, settler.
Also if you have fishing and several sea food resources, alot of the time imo it's better to do just one work boat first while growing a pop then worker, units and settler. Building more workboats and then worker can delay your expansion to long. But this has alot to do with your start of course. Certainly if you have neighbours close by you need to be more aggressive with your expansion, if alone I would usually opt for work boatx2, worker, 1-2 units, settler.

 

[Cer]

I never do worker first, but maybe that's because I play Alexander, whose workers can only build camps right out the gate. I adore workboat first though.

I play as a random leader most of the time. If I get someone who can only build a useless improvement i research tech for something useful... like agriculture.

 

[CivCorpse]

If you have Myst...build stonehenge. The only reason to builder a worker at all is to chop wonders

 

[MrCynical]

1) When your worker would have nothing to do because you start with useless techs.

Even then it's still best to build a worker unless you start with useless techs AND are going for an early religion. Otherwise you can research at least one of Agriculture, Mining or Bronze Working while you build the worker.

 

[Zanttu]

Even then it's still best to build a worker unless you start with useless techs AND are going for an early religion. Otherwise you can research at least one of Agriculture, Mining or Bronze Working while you build the worker.

But what if there's only forests/water tiles in your BFC, and no resources. And you don't start with mining. Would you still go for a worker first?

 

[MrCynical]

But what if there's only forests/water tiles in your BFC, and no resources. And you don't start with mining. Would you still go for a worker first?

Not a valid starting location. The map generator ensures there's always at least one food resource in the BFC, and that either won't be forested, or won't require the forest removing (deer).

So it would have to be a start where the food resource requires animal husbandry to improve, every other tile is forested or seafoodless water - except maybe at Deity, I don't think that's valid given the way starting locations are automatically beautified.

You'd also need a civ where you don't start with any of Mining, Agriculture or Hunting, and can't manage to research Hunting-Animal Husbandry before the worker is built. Even with the wheel it might be worth your time to get road connections to the resources. So basically we're down to a civ that starts with Fishing and Mysticism - Isabella.

This start is getting rather implausible - I've never seen one that met these conditions.

 

[UncleJJ]

I suppose if you start with Hunting there is an argument for building a second scout while your city grows to size 2 before building a worker. Getting a bigger share of the goody huts can be game beaking (and maybe too cheesy for some players). It increases your chances considerably and also denies that resource from the AI competitors. It is a gambit and one that pays off even better at low levels. If you get just one extra tech from a goody hut then the delay of a few turns in the development of your city can easily be exceeded. There is also an additional benefit of better scouting of resources and an insurance against your first scout meeting an untimely end in the jaws of a grizzly.

 

[Zanttu]

Not a valid starting location. The map generator ensures there's always at least one food resource in the BFC, and that either won't be forested, or won't require the forest removing (deer).

So it would have to be a start where the food resource requires animal husbandry to improve, every other tile is forested or seafoodless water - except maybe at Deity, I don't think that's valid given the way starting locations are automatically beautified.

You'd also need a civ where you don't start with any of Mining, Agriculture or Hunting, and can't manage to research Hunting-Animal Husbandry before the worker is built. Even with the wheel it might be worth your time to get road connections to the resources. So basically we're down to a civ that starts with Fishing and Mysticism - Isabella.

This start is getting rather implausible - I've never seen one that met these conditions.

But is it worth building a worker first if there's only one AH resource - lets say a plains sheep for example - and you start with agriculture/hunting and all other tiles in BFC are forest/water and you don't have mining? After you have improved the sheep your worker will have nothing to do for a long time. Actually there can be other resources instead of forests/water, the late game calendar/monarchy resources you can't yet improve or resources you can't yet see. (AFAIK at least uranium can be under forest.) And if there's a couple of non-riverside plains squares, I wouldn't go for pottery to build cottages on these. There are many possible starts where I see building worker first a waste of turns. But this is really rare, about 95% of my games I build worker first.

 

[MrCynical]

But is it worth building a worker first if there's only one AH resource - lets say a plains sheep for example - and you start with agriculture/hunting and all other tiles in BFC are forest/water and you don't have mining? After you have improved the sheep your worker will have nothing to do for a long time.

Firstly, as I said earlier, the starting location beautification means I'm not even sure you can get this - might be able to if you pad it with forest/calendar resources.

Second, I still only need three techs, and AH you've handily given me both possible prequisites for, cutting the research time. The worker isn't going to be missing many turns before Bronze working, and getting the sheep improved (if it really is the only decent tile in the fat cross) is well worth doing as soon as possible.

 

[Zanttu]

Firstly, as I said earlier, the starting location beautification means I'm not even sure you can get this - might be able to if you pad it with forest/calendar resources.

Second, I still only need three techs, and AH you've handily given me both possible prequisites for, cutting the research time. The worker isn't going to be missing many turns before Bronze working, and getting the sheep improved (if it really is the only decent tile in the fat cross) is well worth doing as soon as possible.

With the slash between agriculture and hunting I meant word or. So agriculture OR hunting. I'm not sure about this one, but there surely are cases where it's better to start off with warrior/scout to let the population grow while researching the needed techs.

 

[MrCynical]

With the slash between agriculture and hunting I meant word or. So agriculture OR hunting. I'm not sure about this one, but there surely are cases where it's better to start off with warrior/scout to let the population grow while researching the needed techs.

Boosting the production of the one good tile is more useful than working an extra tile that's at best going to be grassland forest - i.e. one extra hammer (if your start is that bad, your extra pop point won't actually have anything decent to work). An extra warrior is of no real value (I suppose maybe if you start with a scout you could go for a worker steal, but it's a bit slow, and I'll probably still have to waste turns if I actually want the city to grow to size 2). An extra scout might be of some use, but is heavily goody hut dependent - at the levels I play at they'll be gone one way or another before the scout is built.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

If you have Myst...build stonehenge. The only reason to builder a worker at all is to chop wonders

Sometimes Ill start Stonehenge and then switch to worker and settler after my pop hits 2 or 3.

 

[druidravi]

Worker first is always best except:

1) When your worker would have nothing to do because you start with useless techs.

2) You have seafood and fishing available in which case workboat first.

3) You are HC and planning a Quecha rush.

Growing to size three doesn't help much if all you are working is unimproved tiles. The difference in working improved tiles is significant and you want it as early as possible.

Or when you can steal a worker with your quechha