Hippus Mercs

[Avahz Darkwood]

One of my favorite civs in this game is the Hippus and the concept that they are generally a Mercenary civ. I generally don’t get the feel that they truly are such. I have been banging my head about this. They are "known" to sell their services to the highest bidder, but in actual game play they do not. I was thinking more about this in the TAM mod when what you did came to mind. The Hippus palace grants them one horse unit so that they can build their unique units and add to their flavor. Why not add another "resource" to their palace. This resource would only be allowed by the Hippus and would give them the ability to sell off their "services to the highest bidder". The resource would then allow the other civ to build a unique unit call the Hippus Mercenary. This would also allow the Hippus to build this unit when they have "no contracts" to fill. As the game advances so will the strength of this unit (ie by upgrading to a stronger type as techs and money allow).

This way we can keep the existing mercenary system and add the Flavor to the Hippus to go with this back story...

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Lets see how quick this thread dies =)

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

People have proposed a system similar to the Lanun getting Pearls, by which different civs get different resources that others can't see. Perhaps the Hippus could get mercenary resources.
It would be nice if there was a system by which you could actually lease out your units as mercenaries, though. That would give the Hippus a fairly major influence over world politics.

 

[Ur_Vile_Wedge]

It would be nice if there was a system by which you could actually lease out your units as mercenaries, though. That would give the Hippus a fairly major influence over world politics.

Can't you do that in Rhye's? I don't see why it wouldn't work for FFH. Besides, it would give those lazy soldiers something to do when I'm not smiting my foes, or chasing away endless waves of barbarians.......

 

[it-ogo]

Hmm... I propose alternative mechanism.

When hippus mounted unit is inside friendly civ cultural borders it has a button "for hire" (like button "gift unit"). When button is pressed unit proposes itself as a mercenary. Unit gains promo "mercenary" and other civ now posess this unit and use it completely like their own (and pays support for it like for their own unit). But hippus civ can see what unit see and after 10 turns or later can call back unit ("Call back" button accessable from unit for hippus civ) - after that unit again belongs to Hippus civ and lose mercenary promo. Whenever mercenary unit is died or disbanded (AI is programmed to disband mercenary units first), or called back, or master civ declares war on Hippus, unit is returned to Hippus capital with all its XP and promos.

That's all. Result may be the following. Hippus has a huge army of hired mercenary units in armies of their neighbours. Hippus does not pay support cost for their mercs when they are hired but can call them back at any time. Moreover hippus mercs can take XP in foreign battles without risk of being completely killed. In addition Hippus use their mercs as spies and see much.

On the other hand neighbouring civ may want to be friend of Hippus as it can occasionally get good mounted units for no price (only support) which can be spent in war or disbanded at any time.

Hard to code but nice to play, no?

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

I like this idea too very much, but could the AI figure out how to use this? This would also require open borders though...

Hmm... I propose alternative mechanism.

When hippus mounted unit is inside friendly civ cultural borders it has a button "for hire" (like button "gift unit"). When button is pressed unit proposes itself as a mercenary. Unit gains promo "mercenary" and other civ now posess this unit and use it completely like their own (and pays support for it like for their own unit). But hippus civ can see what unit see and after 10 turns or later can call back unit ("Call back" button accessable from unit for hippus civ) - after that unit again belongs to Hippus civ and lose mercenary promo. Whenever mercenary unit is died or disbanded (AI is programmed to disband mercenary units first), or called back, or master civ declares war on Hippus, unit is returned to Hippus capital with all its XP and promos.

That's all. Result may be the following. Hippus has a huge army of hired mercenary units in armies of their neighbours. Hippus does not pay support cost for their mercs when they are hired but can call them back at any time. Moreover hippus mercs can take XP in foreign battles without risk of being completely killed. In addition Hippus use their mercs as spies and see much.

On the other hand neighbouring civ may want to be friend of Hippus as it can occasionally get good mounted units for no price (only support) which can be spent in war or disbanded at any time.

Hard to code but nice to play, no?

 

[Wolfprint]

Mercenaries suggest some form of monetary payment. Similar to it-ogo's suggestion, why not have the Hippus player "gift" his units to other civilisations for a monetary sum (depending on level of unit, e.g. 15 gold for Level One?), and control will be reverted back to the Hippus player after some turns (e.g. 20 turns?).

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

And the gain of gold could be offset by the disadvantage of loosing a unit for a number of turns without the chance of gaining them back (gotta fulfill that contract) unless the civ that has them is at war with you. Maybe the amount of gold can be set based upon the level of the unit and your reputation with the other player and vis versa..., but once again would the AI be able to handle this and trade between each other like they can a resource...?

Mercenaries suggest some form of monetary payment. Similar to it-ogo's suggestion, why not have the Hippus player "gift" his units to other civilisations for a monetary sum (depending on level of unit, e.g. 15 gold for Level One?), and control will be reverted back to the Hippus player after some turns (e.g. 20 turns?).

 

[Farmer Bobathan]

I think the OP's idea to make the hippus more flavorful was ingenious. The only problem with it-igo's idea is what if the civ doesn't want the mercenary? I wouldn't want the hippus spying in my land.

 

[Wolfprint]

I can in fact foresee myself accepting the aid of several early Hippus horselords to stave off Orthus and his hordes, or a sudden mass of Lizardmen.

I think it would be unlikely for the Hippus mercenary to ever take over the role of the Spy. Instead, since the Hippus can build their mounted units very early on, they would be primed for quick reinforcements against rampaging barbarians, or enemy civilisations early in the game. This would give the Hippus themselves a good tactical advantage without crippling the other civilisations too much.

The advantage to the accepting civ would be a quick, cheap, and effective strikeforce, with a minor offsetting disadvantage of spending gold instead of hammers, and with the prospect of the units disappearing quickly a few turns later. The Hippus player benefits by letting his units gain experience and promotions without having to lift a finger (figuratively speaking of course) and slight visibility of other civ's lands and cities for a few turns, at the cost of losing units for the time being. I also do not think that Hippus players will build units for the sole purpose of amassing gold; it is merely a slight tweak to gain some use for the units in peacetime and for the sake of flavour.

 

[it-ogo]

I like this idea too very much, but could the AI figure out how to use this? This would also require open borders though...

I hope it is not so difficult to program AI to build many units, send them for hire in peace time and call back at war. Still AI surely will miss some strategical tricks like making neighbour more aggressive because of strength, stress his economy with many units or support in war weaker rather then stronger but AI always miss strategy. And yes, Open borders is needed (as civ should have good relations with hippus to hire their mercs) or troyan horse or caravel but it may be a bit tricky as I don't know if AI is able to unload its units from someone else's transports.

The only problem with it-igo's idea is what if the civ doesn't want the mercenary? I wouldn't want the hippus spying in my land.

Just disband it in the same turn. And if they become too insistive break open borders. But I believe latter is not necessary as AI can be programmed not to sent mercs where a merc was recently disbanded (for a few turns).

BTW as I know "gift unit" button somtimes is blackened and disabled when civ does not want to accept such a gift. I am not sure though when it is the case.

Still it is much harder to code then resources...

 

[it-ogo]

I think it would be unlikely for the Hippus mercenary to ever take over the role of the Spy.

This is side effect of the Call Back mechanism. Hippus player should have the access to merc unit.

As the alternative all mercs can be called back only together or automatically called back after some turns but it is worse: former is not enough flexible, while latter needs too much micromanagement from both sides.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I rationalize the current situation as the Hippus being tired of working for the other nations and wanting to establish some dominance of their own.

Works for me.

Wouldn't add any of these weird new mechanics.

 

[frenzyslave]

Why not just create an event that may drag the hippus intervening on their side of the war? e.g. bannor invade balseraph. An event pops up saying that the Hippus will give them x units for x gold; or declare war on x civ for x gold.

And maybe a certain tech requirement for the event, eg Honour?

 

[Mortenart]

Why not just create an event that may drag the hippus intervening on their side of the war? e.g. bannor invade balseraph. An event pops up saying that the Hippus will give them x units for x gold; or declare war on x civ for x gold.

I like this idea, as long as Hippus could also help Civs that you have invaded too.

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

I think that would be pretty easy to do. If it triggered when a player declared war if the player wasn't Hippus and if the Hippus were in the game, the player could lose some money, the Hippus gain some money, the Hippus lose some units, and when peace is declared, the Hippus get their units back.
If the player is the Hippus, then when another civ declared war they could get an event that asked them if they wanted to sell some of their units for the duration of the war. If they answer yes, the civ declaring war gets a certain number of units, the player loses a certain number, the player gets some gold, the civ declaring war loses some gold. Wouldn't be too hard, I think.

 

[Wolfprint]

That sounds simple to code and implement, but it lacks a certain dynamism. At least when the Hippus player moves his unit into allied territory and clicks the "gift" button he is making some sort of dynamic choice. Having a popup telling me that I can send my troops to participate in some war happening a whole continent away would be like any other event.

However, I do like the idea if an AI is playing as Hippus. The human player will receive a popup from time to time telling him that Hippus mercenaries are available for hire for a fee.

 

[Lord Bayushi]

I am not sure entirely new game mechanics are called for in this case. I think that it would be better to simply use existing game mechanics (for the most part) and alter the Trade AI and how the Hippus are played.

The computer should offer the Hippus players large sums of money to attack enemies and for alliances, and the AI, when playing the Hippus, should be prone to offer similar treaties for money. Latter in the game, the Hippus should offer Vassalage with steep costs attached (not just free for protection), and should have a special ability to break that Vassal agreement when another civ offers more cash (they should also have the ability to make such offers, even though already Vassaled out).

Perhaps there should be a special unit available after the Stirups (spelling?) tech, available only to those with Open Boarders with the Hippus, that represents the individual Hippus mercs (basically a horse archer with the horse lord promotion and a special condition that it can be perchased similarly to guild of nine mercs and will abandon you if you go to war with the Hippus).

I believe these mechanics would be easier to integrate, and that the AI would have a much easier time digesting them.

 

[Shatner]

I have a thought concerning the Hippus mercenary.

First we need to define some conditions through which a civilization can hire Hippus mercenaries. The central restriction is that the Hippus Civilization must exist within the game. For secondary restrictions I see several possibilities:
1) open borders with the Hippus
2) at peace with the Hippus
3) researched the requisite tech (Currency perhaps?)
4) trade route connection with the Hippus (to prevent the Hippus Mercs appearing overseas before Astronomy is researched)

When implementing this mechanic, pick any combination of those restrictions that you deem fair.


Once the above conditions have been met then each city within the hiring civilization has the option to hire Hippus Mercs (similar to if the Guild of Nine sprung up in each of their cities). The Hippus Merc costs some amount of money and lasts for a set duration (like the 5-turn Treants from March of the Trees) and disappears if the civ ever declares war on Hippus. Whenever a Hippus Merc is hired some percentage of that cost (50%, 100%, whatever) is added to the Hippus Civ's treasury. If you are feeling fancy you can add the "extend contract" unit-ability to the Hippus Merc where you pay some cost (which again is transferred to the Hippus Treasury) and the unit's duration is increased. That way you can hang on to those mercs that survived long enought to get some promotions.


This suggestion isn't as satisfying as collecting your units, as the Hippus, and some how designating them as "For Hire" then seeing another civ pay for their temporary service. If there was a chance some sort of fair, AI-usable mechanic like that would be implemented then I'd be all over it. However, the Dev team is busy so I'm working under the assumption that new fan-requested mechanics will need to be simple and easy to implement to have a hope of making it into the game. Hence the suggestion above which is really just a slight retooling of the existing mercenary mechanic.

 

[xienwolf]

Making the Hippus Provide essentially the Guild of the Nine (Preferably offering Mounted units so as not to makethe Guild obsolete) works decently well except that the Hippus get only , not any XP. Be nice if combined with Hippus being able to spend gold to buy XP on units.