Historical Argument That Was In the Wrong Forum

[Henri Christophe]

Sorry guys, my racial view is bery baised in division of 2. Black and White.
Everybody have dark or lighter skin... As that I saw the world, that is a very complex thema and we can't go further...

I accept your understand of the world, I just don't see the world as you.
I still think this game is very racist and made a decision, I will just don't play it more.... I don't need games to be happy, I know there is no game in the world who isn't very racist and also don't able to do my own game, so... What I can do? Nothing, I try to speak about how I understand the world in this forum, but, as said Alexis de Toqueville, it is a Tyrani of the Democracy, the Majority always is right....

I hope one day the Black revolution happens and some country one day forbid Sid Meier's Civilization in their own boarder because racism, if I can help it, I will do, but not need to be afraid, I'm weak, anyone listen to me... untill now I'm in the 4D world with no help, alone, just trying to change the system inside the system.
The system just can be changed by revolution, your people ask for that, if your people cannot see your racism, unfortenlly, will still Black Lives Matter.

Just to be clear, I'm also not Black, I'm white as you! But I think the Black revolution is comming and I have willgness to help.

Then why did you put him as white/Caucasian on your chart?
Do you even believe what you are saying, because if not I don't see the point of this discussion?

I put him as Caucasian, but in my chart I don't make a space to White, just to Black-Black.
(English missing some words, that is the why is hard to speak some stuffs, Black-Black is the same as Black-African or Black-Negro).

 

[Patine]

Sorry guys, my racial view is bery baised in division of 2. Black and White.
Everybody have dark or lighter skin... As that I saw the world, that is a very complex thema and we can't go further...

I accept your understand of the world, I just don't see the world as you.
I still think this game is very racist and made a decision, I will just don't play it more.... I don't need games to be happy, I know there is no game in the world who isn't very racist and also don't able to do my own game, so... What I can do? Nothing, I try to speak about how I understand the world in this forum, but, as said Alexis de Toqueville, it is a Tyrani of the Democracy, the Majority always is right....

I hope one day the Black revolution happens and some country one day forbid Sid Meier's Civilization in their own boarder because racism, if I can help it, I will do, but not need to be afraid, I'm weak, anyone listen to me... untill now I'm in the 4D world with no help, alone, just trying to change the system inside the system.
The system just can be changed by revolution, your people ask for that, if your people cannot see your racism, unfortenlly, will still Black Lives Matter.

Just to be clear, I'm also not Black, I'm white as you! But I think the Black revolution is comming and I have willgness to help.



I put him as Caucasian, but in my chart I don't make a space to White, just to Black-Black.
(English missing some words, that is the why is hard to speak some stuffs, Black-Black is the same as Black-African or Black-Negro).

Well, then. Black and White thinking, no matter what "Black and White," is meant to mean (two highly unrealistic and absolute views of race, good vs. evil, Manichaean light vs. darkness, what have you), or any other absolutist, binary thinking along similar parameters, but differing opposing elements, is one of the very most destructive, warped, mindless, dehumanizing, and yes, EVIL forms of though in general. I had no idea you had descended to this base, moral level. It is quite disappointing every I see someone fall to one incarnation or another of the moral and socio-political scourge that is absolutist, binary. I hope you one day are able to regain your humanity before your beliefs lead to evil ACTIONS and feeling JUSTIFIED in committing them.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I read again most of questions.
I have two understand of races, first the is people who have dark and white skin, It isn't good or evil. It is just a thing people have.
Some races are very Black, as Africans, Olmecs, South Indians and Native Australians.
Others are very White, as Germanic and Japanese.

A thousand of nations I don't know if they are black or white. Okay too!

My problem is, I can see many White European, White Japanese. But I can't see Black outside Africa!
NO! India had a Black Chandragupta even if he is white, WHY? I also don't know.

@Patine, you not accept Haiti can be an Empire. Of course you cannot agree with my understand.
The first step to understand me is admit Haiti can be an Empire, should be a Civ, and also can have amazing Zumbi-Voodoo feature in the next expansion.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

you not accept Haiti can be an Empire. Of course you cannot agree with my understand.
The first step to understand me is admit Haiti can be an Empire, should be a Civ, and also can have amazing Zumbi-Voodoo feature in the next expansion.

That's the only thing I can at least understand what you are trying to say, the fact that Haiti could be in Civ.
That doesn't mean I agree with everything else.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

That's the only thing I can at least understand what you are trying to say, the fact that Haiti could be in Civ.
That doesn't mean I agree with everything else.

funniest part is no one said haiti couldn’t be in civ, he just assumed that the fact that we reject his 18th century race-science understanding or race means we hate black people or something lmao

 

[Patine]

I read again most of questions.
I have two understand of races, first the is people who have dark and white skin, It isn't good or evil. It is just a thing people have.
Some races are very Black, as Africans, Olmecs, South Indians and Native Australians.
Others are very White, as Germanic and Japanese.

A thousand of nations I don't know if they are black or white. Okay too!

My problem is, I can see many White European, White Japanese. But I can't see Black outside Africa!
NO! India had a Black Chandragupta even if he is white, WHY? I also don't know.

@Patine, you not accept Haiti can be an Empire. Of course you cannot agree with my understand.
The first step to understand me is admit Haiti can be an Empire, should be a Civ, and also can have amazing Zumbi-Voodoo feature in the next expansion.

I do not have a problem with Haiti being a new civilization in the game. I don't know where you ever though I, or anyone else in this conversation said THAT - because, to my knowledge, no one did.

But, these are the things people have issue with - there are NOT just two races. Olmecs were NOT Black. Dravidians are NOT Black. Australian Aborigines are NOT Black in the way the word is used racially. That word means Subsaharan Africans and their traceable descendants. Period. And White Japanese? Really? These are things, along with other preposterous distortions and weird warpings of anthropological science, that I, and others here, have firmly contesting for nine pages, and for several on the original thread in the Civ6 forums. No one has contested Haiti's inherent pre-requisites to fill civilization slot in game.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I do not have a problem with Haiti being a new civilization in the game. I don't know where you ever though I, or anyone else in this conversation said THAT - because, to my knowledge, no one did.

But, these are the things people have issue with - there are NOT just two races. Olmecs were NOT Black. Dravidians are NOT Black. Australian Aborigines are NOT Black in the way the word is used racially. That word means Subsaharan Africans and their traceable descendants. Period. And White Japanese? Really? These are things, along with other preposterous distortions and weird warpings of anthropological science, that I, and others here, have firmly contesting for nine pages, and for several on the original thread in the Civ6 forums. No one has contested Haiti's inherent pre-requisites to fill civilization slot in game.

lol, I’m american, of indian origin, dravidian and light skinned? Am I white or black according to his twisted logic

 

[Henri Christophe]

That's the only thing I can at least understand what you are trying to say, the fact that Haiti could be in Civ.
That doesn't mean I agree with everything else.

Alex, you are a good guy who read to much Britannica Enciclopedia, I would like to thanks you at least understand my basis point.
I guess Haiti is easy to speak about because they are very amazing and astonish. The first people to EVER win a slavery sistem in Human History!

I do not have a problem with Haiti being a new civilization in the game. I don't know where you ever though I, or anyone else in this conversation said THAT - because, to my knowledge, no one did.

First time I speak with you Patine was about if Haiti was an Empire, I guess it was 2018 when I enter in this forum.

First time I enter I ask for Mapuche, Colombia and Haiti. Just after realize how racist this game is I start with this racist policy.
But, indeed, I just want an America full of Civs, and an America very diverse. Nothing more.

About Black, English just have one world to Dark Skin and African Heritage, sorry to I try to speak english using Black to both.
Today's post I use Black as Dark Skin. But some older post I used Black as African Heritage....

Sorry to bad use of your language...

lol, I’m american, of indian origin, dravidian and light skinned? Am I white or black according to his twisted logic

Neither Black or White is also a option

 

[Patine]

First time I speak with you Patine was about if Haiti was an Empire, I guess it was 2018 when I enter in this forum.

First time I enter I ask for Mapuche, Colombia and Haiti. Just after realize how racist this game is I start with this racist policy.
But, indeed, I just want an America full of Civs, and an America very diverse. Nothing more.

About Black, English just have one world to Dark Skin and African Heritage, sorry to I try to speak english using Black to both.
Today's post I use Black as Dark Skin. But some older post I used Black as African Heritage....

Sorry to bad use of your language...


Neither Black or White is also a option

I want to make VERY clear that I was never against Haiti's inclusion. What I had initially butted heads with you about was artificially transforming, with a disingenuous form of historical revisionism, the Garifuna, Miskito, and Seminole from the Native American civilizations they were historically and should be, if they appeared in gain, to "Black American," civ's based on outlier leaders or minority escaped slave refugees who were welcomed among them, but always remained a minority, just to pad out in a contrived way what overtly seemed like a "racial agenda." That is where the disagreements began - not over Haiti.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Others are very White, as Germanic and Japanese.

As Korean-New Zealander this triggers me. HOW DARE YOU SAY ALL ASIANS ARE JAPANESE. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT JAPAN DID TO KOREANS!

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I still think this game is very racist a

Ironic how recent update said in the upcoming patch next week we will have African civ. And so far in NFP we had none of European civ. Yeah civ team is VERY racist. civ 6 may have many problems but racism Isn't the problem.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ironic how recent update said in the upcoming patch next week we will have African civ. And so far in NFP we had none of European civ. Yeah civ team is VERY racist. civ 6 may have many problems but racism Isn't the problem.

With the leader that successfully fought back against European colonialism.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

I hope one day the Black revolution happens and some country one day forbid Sid Meier's Civilization in their own boarder because racism, if I can help it, I will do, but not need to be afraid, I'm weak, anyone listen to me... untill now I'm in the 4D world with no help, alone, just trying to change the system inside the system.
The system just can be changed by revolution, your people ask for that, if your people cannot see your racism, unfortenlly, will still Black Lives Matter.

Just to be clear, I'm also not Black, I'm white as you! But I think the Black revolution is comming and I have willgness to help.

So you are willing to use force to change?
WTH mate? You are no different from many dictators in Africa like robert mugabe and Haitian dicator François Duvalier. Are these people saints just because they are black and in power?

 

[Yeekim]

If they did, they seem to have left virtually no genetic trace anywhere in the Western hemisphere.

The claim of an African origin for the Olmecs is really just pseudo-history; the only evidence presented on its behalf that merits any sort of consideration is the allegedly "black" features of Olmec statuary, which represents a naive assumption that, because those statues appear relatively lifelike compared to most Mesoamerican depictions of humans, those statues must have been intended as photo-realistic representations of their subjects.

I am just giddy because another one of Heyerdahl's theories was just vindicated in a TIL thread.

 

[Yeekim]

I know there is no game in the world who isn't very racist

Have you considered that maybe your ideas about what is "racist" or not are simply unreasonable?

 

[Henri Christophe]

Ironic how recent update said in the upcoming patch next week we will have African civ. And so far in NFP we had none of European civ. Yeah civ team is VERY racist. civ 6 may have many problems but racism Isn't the problem.

Ethiopia isn't enought to make this game less racist, it need to do more Root-Africans.
Oyo, Ashante, Dahomey, Chad, Ndongo are way more root, less Old-World influence on it.
And the most important, need to do at least ONE Black nation outside Africa, the best option is Haiti, because everyone here agree they are amazing enought to be a CIV.

Let's forget for while Olmec 3Deer or Negro Abraham as leader of Seminole.
Can you all help me to make propaganda for Haiti come in the next expansion?
Toussaint L'Overture is one of the few leaders who all history is full of pride, he was Prince in Africa and De Facto ruler of Haiti.

This Haitian historian speak Toussaint L'Overture as Eshu, the first god in West-African Pantheon

Step by step we can do this game less racist. Now he is racist, but it can be less racist for each No-European nation is coming.

As Korean-New Zealander this triggers me. HOW DARE YOU SAY ALL ASIANS ARE JAPANESE. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT JAPAN DID TO KOREANS!

Koreans are also White! Amazing to know your ethinicity.
My Chinese teacher is from 云南 (in south China) and despite her skin is whiter than my, she always say how "Black" she is.
She teach me, in Chinese, the perfect woman is 白富美
白 white
富 rich
美 beautifull (Ps. USA is 美国, beautifull country)

Astonish enought, the racism in China don`t have correlation of USA racism.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Ethiopia isn't enought to make this game less racist, it need to do more Root-Africans.

Dude, you can't expect this game to have EVERY single group of people. Ethiopia is important since it is only African nation not to be colonized by European.

Koreans are also White

THE HELL YOU SAYING? IF SO WHY ARE WE GETTING DISCRIMINATED BY WHITES IN AMERICA? WHY DID TEDDY ROSEVELT HANDED US OVER TO JAPAN IN EXCHANGE FOR PHILIPPINES? Teddy certainly didn't think Koreans were white.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ethiopia isn't enought to make this game less racist, it need to do more Root-Africans.
Oyo, Ashante, Dahomey, Chad, Ndongo are way more root, less Old-World influence on it.

So Ethiopia doesn't count, even though the region has been inhabited by people since maybe even the beginning of time?

And the most important, need to do at least ONE Black nation outside Africa, the best option is Haiti, because everyone here agree they are amazing enought to be a CIV.

I think this is your problem. You are calling the developers racist because they are failing to do what you want, to put a black nation in the Americas. Then you put up the chart showing how there are only five "black" leaders and compared that to about 30 "white/Caucasian" leaders, which was laughable considering not all of them were.

These statements and demands don't solve any problems. Let them put in Haiti when they want to.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Ethiopia is great, I need to admit, but isn't enought.
Just it.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Ethiopia is great, I need to admit, but isn't enought.
Just it.

There is Mali, Zulu, Nubia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Kongo and arguably phoenicians (since Catherge covered much of nothern Africa.) How many more do you want? There are other places to cover and this civ can cover so much.