History (aka Steph's mod 3)

[JSnider]

Well played to around 300 BC ... still in the bronze age and no where near Iron. Most of the other AI players are behind me in tech. My view is that tech is too slow in terms of the passage of time in game. Just my view.

Other thing I noted is that the Barbarians are cleaning the clock of most civs, mine included (Rome). I've watched the English use 6 units against 1 barb and lose. I have never won a defensive battle no matter what the terrain or the city defenses. Everyone is bankrupt and generally unable to stop the barbarians. This may be intentional and if so fine, but tends to get old after losing 10+ units and all your wealth a couple times. May be bad luck but all AIs are having the same level of bad luck. May want to rethink the amount of damage the barb units take or other factors.

 

[Steph]

What is your AI difficulty and Barbarian settings?

In my test game I was able to defeat the Barbarians. They are dangerous, and I usually need a numerical advantage 2 to 1 on average, but they can be beaten!

I had also no problem with financing. Well, if you build 10 units / city, you WILL have problem, that's normal.

 

[Moosezilla]

Extracted, tried to load, got missing file:"Scenarios\...\Conquests\Napoleonic Europe\text\Pedialcons.txt:ICON_BLDG_Summer_Palace" so whatda? Should I insert a SP from DyP into Conquests\Napoleonic Europe? My congrats on putting a date on the file name!!!

 

[Steph]

Can you post a screenshot of the directory where you installed? It seems it's not looking at the correct pediaicons.tx?

 

[Grog Yogurt]

Firstly, congratulations on an interesting and indepth mod, can't wait to see the end product.

I agree with JSnider, I got hammered, as did other civs, by the near invincible Barbarians. Just as I got to a point where I could take on the Barbarian archers they began producing Dark Age cavalry (16.8.3). I was still in the Bronze Age, my best (French) units were Gallic warriors (3.2.1) and Spearmen (2.3.1). Not even fortifying mountain tops with my veteran spears could slow the onslaught. My glorious empire of several cities walked over by a small camp in the outlands!

Previous to this I had a rather perculiar game as the Greeks, who were subsequently subjucated by the Russians (oh how I'd love to have some of those Slav swordsmen working for me). The perculiar bit being encountering Bronze Age 'stealth' units? My Scouts were unable to move over certain tiles, which appeared to be empty but I got the message "Non-combat units may not attack". One one occasion I had moved off a mountain and went to move back in the same turn. Perhaps it was those damn Russians had infiltrated my units with an early KGB unit?

My last criticism is with the Mycenean heavy spearman. It costs more than the Mycenean heavy swordsman, yet the sword has higher HP, A & is equal in D? I built a few to see how they'd go against the Slav swordsmen, with the lower HP even an elite hvy spearman fortified behind a palisade offered little resistance. Perhaps D5 would make him viable?

Keep up the great work!

 

[JSnider]

Ai diff = Monarch .. this is were I usually play to test things.
Barb setting = Rampant or whatever, the very worst ... hmm maybe I shouldn't have gone to the top of the tower for the 1st go around, it is my normal for all the games play.

 

[Steph]

I have reduced the strength of the Barbarians. But they are suppposed to be dangerous, a lot more than in vanilla civ.

And although I like the principle, I may get rid of the population cost for units, as the AI cannot really deal with it, the aI cities are stuck to population 1 or 2

Did someone manage to get better result for the AI, or is it hopeless?

I have also reduced the speed of light cavalry from 3 to 2, except a few specific units like the scythian horse archer.

My last criticism is with the Mycenean heavy spearman. It costs more than the Mycenean heavy swordsman, yet the sword has higher HP, A & is equal in D? I built a few to see how they'd go against the Slav swordsmen, with the lower HP even an elite hvy spearman fortified behind a palisade offered little resistance. Perhaps D5 would make him viable?

Small error here, the swordsman has -1 HP, tand the spearman also, but it shouldn't. So Swordsman = stronger, but less HP. I'ave als slighlty modified the cost to make the swordsman more expensive.

Previous to this I had a rather perculiar game as the Greeks, who were subsequently subjucated by the Russians (oh how I'd love to have some of those Slav swordsmen working for me).

The slavic units are usually a little worse than the Greek. So unless you got behind in technology, there's no reason for them to be much better!
if they are 02 while ou are 01 -> Expect some troubles.

The perculiar bit being encountering Bronze Age 'stealth' units? My Scouts were unable to move over certain tiles, which appeared to be empty but I got the message "Non-combat units may not attack". One one occasion I had moved off a mountain and went to move back in the same turn. Perhaps it was those damn Russians had infiltrated my units with an early KGB unit?

The Scouts are inivisible, but are non combat unit (strength 0), so if there's a scout in a tile, you cannot go in this tile with another scout or a worker.

 

[Moosezilla]

Not sure it will work so "WINNT/Conquests/Scenarios/History_2009-01-15" I seem to recall a strange spelling for scenario in part of your wording?... Anyway i don't seem to be able to post a screen shot.

 

[Faehorn]

When Romans captured my city its population was 4 for some time (i guess they where building something else but still they had pretty good soldiers)
And also about that population thing how about to set the AI to build units less often?
(if the build often etc thing in editor works)
@Moosezilla i may try to post screenshots if Steph thinks its ok

 

[Steph]

Not sure it will work so "WINNT/Conquests/Scenarios/History_2009-01-15" I seem to recall a strange spelling for scenario in part of your wording?... Anyway i don't seem to be able to post a screen shot.

You should put the content of History_2009-01-15 in your scenario folder, not the folder itself!

So currently I suppose you hav

Conquests/Scenario/History_2009-01-15/Steph_History/...
Conquests/Scenario/History_2009-01-15/Steph_History.biq

you should have

Conquests/Scenario/Steph_History/...
Conquests/Scenario/Steph_History.biq

 

[Steph]

I'd like to know if you all have the same problem I have. In all my test games, even if I reduced the duration of plagues a lot (to 10), the plagues NEVER stops.
When they start, they just spread to new cities, destroy the armies there... And so I'm left with virtually no soldiers

 

[JSnider]

Good to see reducing Barb strength ... be so much easier if could have more then 2 land type units for them then could change over time to become stronger, yes I know hard coded. As to your finding on the AI with pop decline to build units I have seen the same thing in other mods (and one I made). They will destroy themselves to build units .. never found a simple way round. Currently I have some units require a pop (more complex ones) and others not, completely arbitrary but does slow the decline of population. Other option is to make it so pop grows back faster with more food being available from resources and irrigation.

So far is fun until the barbs say hello. Keep it coming please

 

[Grog Yogurt]

In the year 57AD the foreign state of Italy has 18 settlements, largest size 6 & 9 are size 1. Other smaller nations are proportunally the same. Could it be the AI builds so many troops because of the current lack of buildings? I've had to continually switch between 'Wealth' on my cities (pop 10+) as I can't build anymore buildings but can't afford to increase my army. On that note I don't know how the AI can afford such large armies? I find about 3 units per city to be the limit (Monarch) while maintianing reasonable research (most AI are keeping up - how do they do it?). Consequently, I've never been able to get close to taking an AI city and see what they've built (I'm curious).

Ah, yes, spies! I should have read the pedia (oops!). I have found that they don't die however. I've had everybody from foreign troops to workers (even building roads) on the same tile. From pedia I thought that was supposed to kill 'em (troops not roads)?

Sob! I liked movement 3 for light cavalry (those pesky the little rascals) I thought it added to the dynamics of the game and seemed historically correct to how they were often employed.

I haven't progressed far beyond Iron Age so haven't come across plagues yet (something to look forward to, yay, boils and puss).

 

[Steph]

On that note I don't know how the AI can afford such large armies? I find about 3 units per city to be the limit (Monarch) while maintianing reasonable research (most AI are keeping up - how do they do it?). Consequently, I've never been able to get close to taking an AI city and see what they've built (I'm curious).

I'm suspecting that:
a) The AI does not need to pay for support (cheat?) or the NS who programmed the AI forgot to telll him to look at maintenance cost... And so they go bankrupt making too many units. The AI build a LOT of units.
It's ture that you don't have thaat many buildings to build yet.

Sob! I liked movement 3 for light cavalry (those pesky the little rascals) I thought it added to the dynamics of the game and seemed historically correct to how they were often employed.

Movement 3 is really too fast I think. At least not for everyone. I want to keep it as a bonus for some units / civilization (like the Scythian horse archer

 

[Moosezilla]

Did what you wrote, played til I got curious about "spies", crash, edited pedia, back to 1200bc. Hope you put mass regicide back in so i wont waste as much time building scouts.

 

[Steph]

Update available

What does it change:
- Removed population cost for units, and slightly reduced the food bonus for resource.
- Reduced speed of horseman to 2, except a few flavour units like the Scythian horse archer
- Tweaked the cost of units / techs / building a bit
- Modified time scale
- Tweaked plague effect.

In my latest test game, it seemed to work better.

Tell me what you think.

Also, about the population cost. It may be interesting to keep this concept, but only for multiplayer game (human vs human). A human player should be able to handle that while the AI can't ... What do you think?

I'll wait one week for feedback + additional tests on my side. Please focus feedback and comment on unit balancing. I would like to add some civilizations, but I'll do that only if you confirm the unit balancing is correct.

I'll add China, Maghreb and Arabia next.

 

[Moosezilla]

Scout and monks need "art/units/_euro scout/pedia/....." etc I added the new "pedia". Then I could read civilopedia/units... but then had to add euro scout from MEMII when my city built it. Playing as Bismark now... fun!

 

[georgestow]

When I played before, the AI seemed okay with the population cost for units, but if you say so...

 

[Steph]

Scout and monks need "art/units/_euro scout/pedia/....." etc I added the new "pedia". Then I could read civilopedia/units... but then had to add euro scout from MEMII when my city built it. Playing as Bismark now... fun!

I have checked, and the zip includes the _Euro_Scout folder, with the proper pcx and the pedia text seems OK. Are you sure you installed everything properly?

When I played before, the AI seemed okay with the population cost for units, but if you say so...

In the game I tried, the AI build units, but the cities never grew larger than 4, and were very often 1 or 2 only.
A human player can manage it better.

I tried a game with Italy, and I had 12 cities, with an army of 40 units, while the English had only 4 cities, each with 2 units, and and the Greek at only 2 cites.

 

[Moosezilla]

Tech chooser large pcx for scholastic crashed me! it was when I looked for religous (sp) orders. I know it seems strange but maybe a result of conquests disc and windows pro 2000 xt.?!?