Hitler.

[nomooon]

The same can be said of most militaristic leaders. Their generals do the tactics.

I am sorry but Mao was one of the most amazing strategist, he knew how to mobilize, where to go, when to hide, when to strike, when to call someone's buff, what to avoid; these were easy to say but you know he came to power when his guerrilla army was down to couple of thousands while being chased closely and he just happen to hit the right note every time since then, grew his army into one million while squeezed between an invading Japan and a hostile Chinese government, and wrestled control from the government that had four million army backed by the U.S. government; that was a very impressive strategist even though he screwed China up later with all his movements.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Stalin industrialized and did not try to commit genocide.
Though he killed more it wasn't mass killings, it was only people who opposed him. In Hitler's case the victims had no choice, whether it be Jews, Catholics, or blacks.

The forced industrialization slaughter millions, particularly Ukraine. Exporting all your agricultural goods (including the domestic supply) to build an industrial base is pretty disastrous to the people. Also Stalin was a paranoid bastard, and thought everybody opposed him resulting in millions of more deaths.

Also Stalin was an excellent war leader, as was Mao.

Using your men as a meat shield and waiting for winter to kick makes you an excellent war leader?

Also, Slav jokes my ass, if it wasn't for Russia half of Europe would be German at this very moment.

Instead we had decades of half of Europe being under the Soviet Union.

 

[Yared]

Actually, including Hitler would make the exclusion of Tojo and Mussolini (Italy, in fact!) look even worse. All 3 axis powers are absent.

You sure there aren't any better, historically, leaders for Italy?

(Before we get into a discussion of "but Italy wasn't a unified country", it is worth mentioning that Pericles was the leader of Athens, not of a Greek empire.)

 

[need my speed]

Besides, we already have the Roman Empire (and yes, we also have the Holy Roman Empire and Germany)...

 

[NovaKart]

Is Firaxis an American company? I would say generally speaking Americans and western Europeans are much more familiar with the holocaust than with Stalin's crimes against humanity so that would explain it. People know he was a bad guy but he seems to bring less of an emotional impact for many Americans. That, and the fact that he's admired by some people in his own country in probably a nostalgic kind of way explains it. Kind of ironic that he's not really ethnically Russian.

Mao Zedong's wife Qiang Jing took a lot of the blame for the Cultural Revolution. One thing that really bothers me is how they destroyed so much of China's history. I've seen temples there where they cut the heads off of statues and carved out the faces of thousand year old Buddhist carvings. Lots of temples and other religious buildings were completely destroyed. A lot of people in China will privately admit they don't like Mao Zedong. He's more of an icon now really. Sometimes people wear a pin with his head on it or he's on a rearview mirror ornament.

Deng Xiaoping was probably a better lead but I think he's really too recent in history and he's not such an iconic person.

 

[travlake]

Wowww hijack threads much? Create your own thread to talk about whether Hilter should be in teh game. This is about his personality conditional on him already being in the game.

Here is my attempt at a Hitler leaderhead. Copy this into the relavent part of the XML file.

Thanks for doing this. Just to check, in order to use, do I also need to dl an "add hitler" mod or can I just paste that code into the XML between two other leaders and be done with it?

 

[Moroktonos]

Well, if you want him to look like Hitler and have relevant civopedia information for him, you need to download a mod. Otherwise the first few lines of the code

<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_LEADER_HITLER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_LEADER_HITLER</ArtDefineTag>

wouldn't mean anything. In fact, I assumed that whatever mod it was refered to Hitler as HITLER rather than ADOLF_HITLER or something... but hopefully smoked salmon will get back to me on that.

You could create your own mod if you didn't mind using someone else's leaderhead art. You would simply have to remember to add him as an available leader to Germany, though.

 

[Seductive]

The forced industrialization slaughter millions, particularly Ukraine. Exporting all your agricultural goods (including the domestic supply) to build an industrial base is pretty disastrous to the people. Also Stalin was a paranoid bastard, and thought everybody opposed him resulting in millions of more deaths.

To make a world super power, at that point in time, that was the only way he saw to do it.


Using your men as a meat shield and waiting for winter to kick makes you an excellent war leader?
No, defending your nation from complete invasion and pushing the enemy back to the capital and raising your countries flag upon their capital.
Basically spitting in their faces, that's an excellent war leader.

Instead we had decades of half of Europe being under the Soviet Union.

Yeah, Soviet Union rule is far better than a full scale Nazi European rule.
So your saying you would want one race to be above all? He didn't give a dookie about other nations, he wanted Germany to take over.
If you think Hitler ruling all of Europe would be better than the Soviet Union ruling half and not wanting a master race to dominate the planet then you seriously need to see a doctor immediately, shall I recommend one for you?

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Am I the only one who finds it utterly bizarre that there are two simultaneous conversations going on in this thread?

 

[Seductive]

WRONG... ask a Ukrainian if you don't believe me.

And diegovalsco... Mao killed 70 million... Stalin over 33 million...
And you claim "anti-Stalin propaganda"?

He didn't only kill Ukrainians and did not wish for a master race to dominate the world.

He just wanted the best for his country, that's what it came down to.

Hitler was at the parallel side of the realm.

 

[Seductive]

Was Hitler the good military leader? Or was it the German mobile staff, von Manstein, Guderian, and Rommel (amongst others). I really think that they succeeded in spite of Hitler. Guderian actually screamed in Hitler's face.

The only thing that Hitler did that was 'good' was mobilizing Germany. His military staff is more responsible for Germany's initial success than anything else.

Hitler was not a Napoleon.

I concur with his post.

Hitler's mass amount of Generals did the real work.
He was an insane speed addict.

 

[Seductive]

stalin murdered far more people than hitler and commited genocide , how can that not be mass killings? And he was every bit as racist as hitler , he just picked on diffrent people.

It is strange there's no hitler but there is stalin . It was probably a wise thing though.

Stalin did the mass killings because of industrialization and opposition. He did not want a master race to control the planet. Nor was he insane, racist against a different group, sure, but not insane nor as nearly as war hungry as Hitler.

 

[Moroktonos]

Am I the only one who finds it utterly bizarre that there are two simultaneous conversations going on in this thread?

Hilarious, more like... But don't tell the other guys; it's top notch entertainment. The stuff that some people write... ...but, really, this thread doesn't even hold a candle to the "are Terra maps racist?" or "Worst leader for a Civ" threads for absurdity. :suicide:

 

[Yared]

Can't the conversations be given their own threads and be moved to History forum or OT?

 

[SmokedSalmon]

Well, if you want him to look like Hitler and have relevant civopedia information for him, you need to download a mod. Otherwise the first few lines of the code

<Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_LEADER_HITLER_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
<ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_LEADER_HITLER</ArtDefineTag>

wouldn't mean anything. In fact, I assumed that whatever mod it was refered to Hitler as HITLER rather than ADOLF_HITLER or something... but hopefully smoked salmon will get back to me on that.

You could create your own mod if you didn't mind using someone else's leaderhead art. You would simply have to remember to add him as an available leader to Germany, though.

Yes it is HITLER and not ADOLF_HITLER.

 

[Zeiter]

The Hitler leaderhead in WolfRevolution who is AGG/CHA seems to do pretty well in my games....

 

[NovaKart]

It's pretty common for threads to change their topic or have 2 going on at one time. There's no need to get your knickers in a knot about it.

 

[Seductive]

Yeah yo.
This site is sexy anyways! =]

 

[need my speed]

Stalin did the mass killings because of industrialization and opposition. He did not want a master race to control the planet. Nor was he insane, racist against a different group, sure, but not insane nor as nearly as war hungry as Hitler.

Yeah, because op opposition he mass murdered people. People who, for, let's pick a random number, 5% (because the 5 and the % are the same button ), were opposition. The rest was paranoia, leading to more opposition. Except for the fact that Stalin was so paranoid, none dared to oppose him anymore...So in that respect he was insane. Of Hitler and Stalin, Stalin is the lesser evil. Mainly because he won the war and allied himself with the US etcetera, but still...