handy900
Deity
The South
The North
The North
HNDY01 Babylonian Rampage (AWE C3C)
- Thread starter handy900
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barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
I still did have not gotten the same feeling I had in Nehru. The lack of iron is really killing us it seems. If we do go down in flames lets try again. Does the LB army have a settler underneath it for transportation to horses / iron area? If we can hold out until we get horses / iron we could still have a chance. A couple more armies would certainly help. Thank the civ gods for the one generated on your set handy. One question? Is the army ALL LB's? I'm not exactly sure on how the defense works but I think one bowman mixed in there would have given the entire army defense 2. Correct me if I'm wrong. We will go down fighting and hope for more armies. Good killing to next leader.
handy900
Deity
Love the Clint avatar.
I never got this feeling in Nehru. Portugal is pouring knights on us at a rate that will overwhelm us. I just don't see us getting iron before they get cav, and even if we do, 8 cav will kill three pikes pretty easy. Sixteen boats bringing troops. WOW
The army is a 3 LB army. I thought about a spear, and normally that's what I would do. But I decided we need to swing for the fences and made it a three LB army. I also think it's a moot point.
We have 4 strikes against us. No rivers, no salt, no iron, no horses. Two of the four and we might manage, missing all 4 is a killer.
There is no settler under the LB. I forgot about that,
although I don't think it matters. If we did settle & rush a harbor, we would not have much cash left for upgrades. Besides, Pikes versus the soom to arrive cavalry would be a loser. Missing out on saltpeter ultimately was the really big nail in the coffin.I say we try AWE again, this time as China with a couple of cows next to a river.
If Greebley, T_McC, Ted and you can survive another 40 turns I will be very impressed indeed. Greebley in a very tough spot on his first turn. There are probably several more MI and/or knights landing from Portugal.
I think the biggest nail was the lack of rivers/lakes. It meant we had no bonus gold squares, all towns needed aquaducts, most towns needed harbors, and there was no way to increase the speed of growth in any town.
The lack of resources was, of course, also pretty significant, but I think less significant than the lack fresh water.
Anyway, I have got it and will do my best, but it sounds like it will be grim play.
[Edit: So I tried the pre-turn. I managed to move about units so that we kept the cities in the south (a spear won vs an attacking MDI, otherwise we would have lost Shurrupak in the S.
However, the Hittite knight attacked our longbow army and killed it, taking only 1 hp in the process
So no more Longbow army and I am only on turn1. Ack!
The lack of resources was, of course, also pretty significant, but I think less significant than the lack fresh water.
Anyway, I have got it and will do my best, but it sounds like it will be grim play.
[Edit: So I tried the pre-turn. I managed to move about units so that we kept the cities in the south (a spear won vs an attacking MDI, otherwise we would have lost Shurrupak in the S.
However, the Hittite knight attacked our longbow army and killed it, taking only 1 hp in the process
So no more Longbow army and I am only on turn1. Ack!
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
As Greebley said above I think the lack of fresh water hurt us the most. With a couple of cities on rivers or lakes we might have managed to produce enough workers to push forward into the wetlands early enough to have made a difference.
Our atrocious leader luck also denied us the means to push forward early on and the lack of any strat resources really just added to our misery.
I guess it all boils down to how many troops the off-continent AI can land on our territory in the next 10-20 turns.
Good luck Greebley.
Ted
Our atrocious leader luck also denied us the means to push forward early on and the lack of any strat resources really just added to our misery.
I guess it all boils down to how many troops the off-continent AI can land on our territory in the next 10-20 turns.
Good luck Greebley.
Ted
handy900
Deity
The LB army bites the dust - ugh. 
Sounds like I wasted a leader.
Let the second guessing begin
Not that it matters a whole bunch, but maybe I should have put a bowman in the army to add a little defensive capability, or just made a spear army.
I thought about keeping the LB army in the south to repel invaders. But that just seemed to be a strategy to prolong the inevitable, not a winning strategy.
I am curious, and won't be offended if you care to post your ideas on what I could have or should have done differently in playing or in use of the leader.
I'm also curious what you though about abandoning the cities. I felt we would lose them anyway, and wanted to send the units to a more important city.
I definitely learned the power of fresh water in this game.
The one thing that may have helped us in this game is an earlier northern push. If we had left the mountain earlier, we could have fought the 2 and 3 stack units we have seen early on in other AW games. Perhaps we could have popped an early leader and pillaged much sooner. I think the mountain fortress may have actually hurt us more than helped us. Anyone agree?
Also would anyone like to pre-register for another AWE attempt as the river bound corner start position with a cow Chinese? If you want to be on the roster, let me know with a reply in this thread. Also, I'm not married to China, so suggestions are welcomed. I think Barbslinger want to play as Rome, which is okay with me also.
Sounds like I wasted a leader.Let the second guessing begin
Not that it matters a whole bunch, but maybe I should have put a bowman in the army to add a little defensive capability, or just made a spear army.
I thought about keeping the LB army in the south to repel invaders. But that just seemed to be a strategy to prolong the inevitable, not a winning strategy.
I am curious, and won't be offended if you care to post your ideas on what I could have or should have done differently in playing or in use of the leader.
I'm also curious what you though about abandoning the cities. I felt we would lose them anyway, and wanted to send the units to a more important city.
I definitely learned the power of fresh water in this game.
The one thing that may have helped us in this game is an earlier northern push. If we had left the mountain earlier, we could have fought the 2 and 3 stack units we have seen early on in other AW games. Perhaps we could have popped an early leader and pillaged much sooner. I think the mountain fortress may have actually hurt us more than helped us. Anyone agree?
Also would anyone like to pre-register for another AWE attempt as the river bound corner start position with a cow Chinese?
If you want to be on the roster, let me know with a reply in this thread. Also, I'm not married to China, so suggestions are welcomed. I think Barbslinger want to play as Rome, which is okay with me also.
Well, we had a few things go right in this game:
(1) We had a corner start (should be ~50% on a continents map)
(2) We had a 1-tile choke separating us from the rest of the world. (A Mountain to boot!)
(3) We had three lux within our territory, so we combined with (2) we could expand and grow in peace.
(4) The AI's on our continent seemed to be attacking each other a lot. (That stack of Spanish Knights has been around for about 40 turns, and they still haven't attacked anything.)
And that's it.
Zero resources meant even after our peaceful expansion, we couldn't build a military. The only thing that let us come this far was that our UU didn't require resources.
In addition to lacking fresh water, we also had an awful shape to our portion of the continent. In a normal game one would expect to have 10-12 cities 1st or 2nd ring to the capital. We have enough room to properly build 5. That, combined with the lack of fresh water, meant we were essentially playing a dry, resourceless, 3CC AWE game. Which is kind of ridiculous. If our portion of the continent had more grassland, and room to build 6-8 healthy cities, we might have been able to mount an early MA charge past the choke, and certainly would be able to fend off invasions more easily.
Regardless, I don't see an glaring errors in strategy in this game. We may have been able to go on a Bowman rush earlier, but suffered a Despotism GA. Any cities we captured/founded would be rather corrupt due to the new FP model, and we would have had long supply lines.
About the only thing we could have done differently was have the Spanish start position.
The other two AI on our continent also seem to have lousy shapes to their land.
Oddly, about the only way we could have won this game was to give Nehru another turn at the wheel. Resourceless, bonus-HP knights would have allowed us an offense.
And Handy, don't worry about the army. Once we didn't have Saltpeter, you didn't have a real choice. An army with a spear on top for defense would be killed by the first Cav it saw. The only useful army would have been a 2-LB, 1 Musket army, which you couldn't build.
(1) We had a corner start (should be ~50% on a continents map)
(2) We had a 1-tile choke separating us from the rest of the world. (A Mountain to boot!)
(3) We had three lux within our territory, so we combined with (2) we could expand and grow in peace.
(4) The AI's on our continent seemed to be attacking each other a lot. (That stack of Spanish Knights has been around for about 40 turns, and they still haven't attacked anything.)
And that's it.
Zero resources meant even after our peaceful expansion, we couldn't build a military. The only thing that let us come this far was that our UU didn't require resources.
In addition to lacking fresh water, we also had an awful shape to our portion of the continent. In a normal game one would expect to have 10-12 cities 1st or 2nd ring to the capital. We have enough room to properly build 5. That, combined with the lack of fresh water, meant we were essentially playing a dry, resourceless, 3CC AWE game. Which is kind of ridiculous. If our portion of the continent had more grassland, and room to build 6-8 healthy cities, we might have been able to mount an early MA charge past the choke, and certainly would be able to fend off invasions more easily.
Regardless, I don't see an glaring errors in strategy in this game. We may have been able to go on a Bowman rush earlier, but suffered a Despotism GA. Any cities we captured/founded would be rather corrupt due to the new FP model, and we would have had long supply lines.
About the only thing we could have done differently was have the Spanish start position.
The other two AI on our continent also seem to have lousy shapes to their land. Oddly, about the only way we could have won this game was to give Nehru another turn at the wheel. Resourceless, bonus-HP knights would have allowed us an offense.
And Handy, don't worry about the army. Once we didn't have Saltpeter, you didn't have a real choice. An army with a spear on top for defense would be killed by the first Cav it saw. The only useful army would have been a 2-LB, 1 Musket army, which you couldn't build.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
I don't think there's much we could have done differently to prevent the situation we're now in.
We couldn't have moved North earlier without a lot more workers to pave the way through jungle & wetlands for our Cats and we would have been very hard pushed to defend those workers & the roads they built.
All's not lost yet but if we do go down in flames then I'm up for the rematch, preferably with a militaristic Civ
Ted
We couldn't have moved North earlier without a lot more workers to pave the way through jungle & wetlands for our Cats and we would have been very hard pushed to defend those workers & the roads they built.
All's not lost yet but if we do go down in flames then I'm up for the rematch, preferably with a militaristic Civ
Ted
I would have gone with a longbow army too, Handy. I think it does show us that a defense 1 army just doesn't work once there are attack 4 (and probably 3) units. I have been wondering if a horseman army would be better than a spear due to the extra speed. I think the answer is "no".
I also think that completely hiding behind our mountain in the start had the problems mentioned above - no early leader. We learned to put a city past the mountain a bit too late.
In general, though I think the harsh start is why this was so hard for all the reasons mentioned. I don't think we could have pushed past the choke in a significant way soon enough. I can't see us being able to hold all the land between us and the iron.
Well I am off to see how many cities I can save.
Oh, I completely forgot the other big event that happened in the IBT. China, I think it was dropped off a Cavalry.
I also think that completely hiding behind our mountain in the start had the problems mentioned above - no early leader. We learned to put a city past the mountain a bit too late.
In general, though I think the harsh start is why this was so hard for all the reasons mentioned. I don't think we could have pushed past the choke in a significant way soon enough. I can't see us being able to hold all the land between us and the iron.
Well I am off to see how many cities I can save.
Oh, I completely forgot the other big event that happened in the IBT. China, I think it was dropped off a Cavalry.
Preturn: Put whatever units into the threatened towns to try to save them we have two spear to hold off 2 MDI; a longbow and some spears for the knights and Pike
IBT: Amazingly one of the spear wins vs the MDI and we keep our Shurrupak. Even more amazingly, a knight attacks our Healthy longbow army and kills it taking only a single HP! The knights attack but do not take the city. A Cav is dropped off.
960 AD: Manage to clear the units off our lower continent. Thinking it over, I am going to try a very different strategy. I am going to see if we can cover our coast. The real problem is our shape is poorly suited to this, but I don't think I will be able to handle cav landings for long.
980 AD: Lose a longbow on attack.
990 AD: Upgrade all our catapults up north. They are doing poorly.
1000 AD: Well the lining is complete. Our sourthern shores are protected (but at high unit cost). Note that I am not completely sure the Trebuchets work for defense and would like to relieve them an send them N. I am not using workers.
1010 AD: Build Corsabad to replace a lost city (start harbor).
1020 AD: Build Hindana to replace a lost city (start harbor)
1030 AD: Build Tell Wilaya
1050 AD: Finis.
Note:
No elite victories gave leaders. Eventually our other two elite longbows lost to strength 3 units in the jungle so we have only 1 left. I am short on longbows up N since setting up the blockade, but have units heading N to help. One thing I am not good at is getting leaders. I am not always good at preserving my elites.
I have set up the grand blockade (thank god the vikings aren't in the game). This gives us a bit of breathing room. I am unsure why this didn't occur to me before (We haven't even discussed it) - probably due to the fact our land is poorly suited to it. In the N it means a unit on every square.
I am building warriors. The reason is I can replace more expensive units in the blockade and send them N. Thus building warriors is the same as the more expensive units. Maybe someday we will have swarms of TOW??? If we are lucky....
We are still at +8 gold, but we need lots of cash to support both the blockade and to consider an offensive.
I may just be prolonging a dead game, but it is worth the try I think. Be careful to not leave a square unoccupied.
>> The Save <<
IBT: Amazingly one of the spear wins vs the MDI and we keep our Shurrupak. Even more amazingly, a knight attacks our Healthy longbow army and kills it taking only a single HP! The knights attack but do not take the city. A Cav is dropped off.
960 AD: Manage to clear the units off our lower continent. Thinking it over, I am going to try a very different strategy. I am going to see if we can cover our coast. The real problem is our shape is poorly suited to this, but I don't think I will be able to handle cav landings for long.
980 AD: Lose a longbow on attack.
990 AD: Upgrade all our catapults up north. They are doing poorly.
1000 AD: Well the lining is complete. Our sourthern shores are protected (but at high unit cost). Note that I am not completely sure the Trebuchets work for defense and would like to relieve them an send them N. I am not using workers.
1010 AD: Build Corsabad to replace a lost city (start harbor).
1020 AD: Build Hindana to replace a lost city (start harbor)
1030 AD: Build Tell Wilaya
1050 AD: Finis.
Note:
No elite victories gave leaders. Eventually our other two elite longbows lost to strength 3 units in the jungle so we have only 1 left. I am short on longbows up N since setting up the blockade, but have units heading N to help. One thing I am not good at is getting leaders. I am not always good at preserving my elites.
I have set up the grand blockade (thank god the vikings aren't in the game). This gives us a bit of breathing room. I am unsure why this didn't occur to me before (We haven't even discussed it) - probably due to the fact our land is poorly suited to it. In the N it means a unit on every square.
I am building warriors. The reason is I can replace more expensive units in the blockade and send them N. Thus building warriors is the same as the more expensive units. Maybe someday we will have swarms of TOW??? If we are lucky....
We are still at +8 gold, but we need lots of cash to support both the blockade and to consider an offensive.
I may just be prolonging a dead game, but it is worth the try I think. Be careful to not leave a square unoccupied.
>> The Save <<
handy900
Deity
Hope springs eternal
Handy900
Greebley
Barbslinger is up
T_McC
Ted_Jackson
Handy900
Greebley
Barbslinger is up
T_McC
Ted_Jackson
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
Perhaps we can open the wall to let Zulu or Spanish in to fish for leaders near an area where we have buckets and elite. Once we get our warrior wall up and running we can continue build up for northern attempts with LB stacks. Are the pillagers still taking out continental iron? Let's give it a go! With the worries off on shore landings we can concentrate on the north.
Spain has been damaged/pillaged and the Bow army was wandering back toward the border. I think taking out the hittite iron and exploring that dark area to look for saltpeter might not be a bad idea.
Ya, once we have built warriors to replace our lower units, then we can push north if we can. Note that workers are no longer able to keep a unit from landing - I just tested it. I am unsure about the Trebuchets, but I would replace them if w can. I am guessing the AI could land if it wanted though I am not positive. Definitely do not use workers though.
It just occurred to me we still don't have the FP! I would build it ASAP as it will increase our income and thus our max army.
[Edit: I am playing an AW Spain game single player and I must say that Conquistador Armies are truely awesome! They pillage 9! squares a turn as expected. I want to try them in one of our SG's. Too bad their traits are so poor.]
Ya, once we have built warriors to replace our lower units, then we can push north if we can. Note that workers are no longer able to keep a unit from landing - I just tested it. I am unsure about the Trebuchets, but I would replace them if w can. I am guessing the AI could land if it wanted though I am not positive. Definitely do not use workers though.
It just occurred to me we still don't have the FP! I would build it ASAP as it will increase our income and thus our max army.
[Edit: I am playing an AW Spain game single player and I must say that Conquistador Armies are truely awesome! They pillage 9! squares a turn as expected. I want to try them in one of our SG's. Too bad their traits are so poor.]
handy900
Deity
Can't wait to see if the AI trys to counter this with a big dump of units north of the moutain.
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
The link on the post is to the picture and the one in the downloads is 550AD. Will play tomorrow.
Doh!
Sorry about that. This link should be right
>> The Save <<
I have decided that conquistador armies are awesome. They will be attacked on the flat, but with nine movement thru any terrain they can scuttle from mountain to mountain or stop in the middle of the jungle cutting all roads first. I would love to try an AWE SG with spain. I have four right now cutting up the other continent in my single player game. That is 30+ pillages a turn!
On Mountains I think they are safe until tanks.
Sorry about that. This link should be right
>> The Save <<
I have decided that conquistador armies are awesome. They will be attacked on the flat, but with nine movement thru any terrain they can scuttle from mountain to mountain or stop in the middle of the jungle cutting all roads first. I would love to try an AWE SG with spain. I have four right now cutting up the other continent in my single player game. That is 30+ pillages a turn!
On Mountains I think they are safe until tanks.
handy900
Deity
Spain sounds like fun to me. Nine pillages per turn will wreck an economy PDQ. Sherman's war @ warp speed.
handy900
Deity
Just a reminder
Barbslinger is up
If you need a skip, let me know. We'll jump to Ted in 24 if you have not posted.
Barbslinger is up
If you need a skip, let me know. We'll jump to Ted in 24 if you have not posted.
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
Ted posted the following in some other games he is in:
I would assume this is true for this game as well.
Why did you jump the game to Ted? Is TMcC not avail? If so then you are up Handy.
I would assume this is true for this game as well.
Why did you jump the game to Ted? Is TMcC not avail? If so then you are up Handy.
