Defense is good, but hopefully we can soon go back on offense vs. the Zulu. A single Cav Army can probably come close to clearing out the southern island, and if we re-settle it we should hit the domination limits. We will have at least 1 Cav army in the next 20 turns. We could do an army every 10 turns (without leaders) if we were running all cash. I don't advocate that now, but when we inevitably pull Medicine as our free tech it might be something to consider.
HNDY05b AWS as the Sumerians
- Thread starter handy900
- Start date
T_McC said:
Damnit! Conquest victories are so much more legitimate!I see that I'm up, but I cannot realistically get it for a while. If you are willing to wait 2-3 days (not including today), then I'll get it though. Otherwise, skip me and finish the game. School just started and I haven't gotten settled in yet.
I was down 3 or so hp due to an attack on a longbow that was in the way. Not sure if that is why it attacked though.
The problem I see is that we won't be able to get to 66% without taking some land on the other continent, and I am not sure we will be able to do so and defend our lands without a bunch more troops or Rails so we can ship across units.
I think we should try taking the last Zulu island in the hopes we don't need their continent, but also keep up research to make sure if we do that we will be able to get it.
If we only need a small part of the continent, then it might be possible to get to 66% without a major fight. Any more and we will have to face the Mayan and Zulu forces. They may be small if the Zulu and Mayan hurt one another by enough, but then again we could easily be talking of something like 30 to 50 units or more.
The problem I see is that we won't be able to get to 66% without taking some land on the other continent, and I am not sure we will be able to do so and defend our lands without a bunch more troops or Rails so we can ship across units.
I think we should try taking the last Zulu island in the hopes we don't need their continent, but also keep up research to make sure if we do that we will be able to get it.
If we only need a small part of the continent, then it might be possible to get to 66% without a major fight. Any more and we will have to face the Mayan and Zulu forces. They may be small if the Zulu and Mayan hurt one another by enough, but then again we could easily be talking of something like 30 to 50 units or more.
I'd be surprised if we needed to hit anything on the other continent. We only need another 15%, and we gained 9% on your turns with three settlements and about 5 border expansions. We still have border expansions to come from all of the island cities as well as 3-4 of cities on our continent. Then we could hit the second Zulu island and plant 3-4 cities, and if that's not enough they have a two-tile island city we can capture. We'd only have to delay research by 3-4 turns to scrape together enough money to rush the island libraries, so it's not really an either-or.
handy900
Deity
Yom said:
Slinger is out
, so I'll swap with Yom since I can get to it. That way Yom still gets to play but we can keep things moving along.
You might be right TMcC. I certainly have no problems with saving to rush some libraries.
We may want to wait to do the rushing when we are closer to taking the final island. Rushing now just costs more cash. We are currently at +29 gpt which will give us some cash; we can lower science later if we wish.
Remember we can also use units to rush the libraries if short on cash. If we are going to get the win without attacking the main island, we can disband some cav which gets us 1/2 a library or so.
So I wouldn't lower science right now (or raise it either). We should have enough units and cash when the time comes.
We may want to wait to do the rushing when we are closer to taking the final island. Rushing now just costs more cash. We are currently at +29 gpt which will give us some cash; we can lower science later if we wish.
Remember we can also use units to rush the libraries if short on cash. If we are going to get the win without attacking the main island, we can disband some cav which gets us 1/2 a library or so.
So I wouldn't lower science right now (or raise it either). We should have enough units and cash when the time comes.
I pretty much agree with Greebley. I shadowed a couple of turns last night and I think we can get Banking in 7-8 turns while only running a small deficit for the final 3-4. So we could research as hard as we can towards Banking, then set research to 0% to accumulate cash to rush libraries. While we're running 0% science, all specialists should be scientists to start knocking turns off of ToG. We get much better value from 3 beakers than from 2 gold.
By the time we discover Banking it will cost ~400 gold to rush the 4 Libraries. I believe we can accumulate that much in 4 turns of 0% science. (And I think more than 1/2 our science comes from specialists, so it's really only costing us 2 turns of research.)
I'm not sure we'll hit the point where we want to disband Cavalry to rush buildings. I think we can make 80 gold a lot more easily than build a Cavalry.
By the time we discover Banking it will cost ~400 gold to rush the 4 Libraries. I believe we can accumulate that much in 4 turns of 0% science. (And I think more than 1/2 our science comes from specialists, so it's really only costing us 2 turns of research.)
I'm not sure we'll hit the point where we want to disband Cavalry to rush buildings. I think we can make 80 gold a lot more easily than build a Cavalry.
Remember we are scientific. We have a 1/3 chance of getting Steam Power for free and 1/3 chance of getting Nationalism (rifles) for free. Both would be very helpful if we do need a town or two on the other continent. Rifles would give us defense 6+ vs attack 4; steam power frees up all our units on defense.
The advantage of troops is that they already exist. We can only get a certain amount per turn in cash, but have enough troops right now to build all the libs we need. We only want to do this though if it pushes us over the 66% otherwise we need the troops (and the tech for that matter).
Lets upgrade some boats too. It would be nice to be able to move around our armies.
We haven't started the pentagon yet. Not sure if we wouldn't prefer more troops though.
The advantage of troops is that they already exist. We can only get a certain amount per turn in cash, but have enough troops right now to build all the libs we need. We only want to do this though if it pushes us over the 66% otherwise we need the troops (and the tech for that matter).
Lets upgrade some boats too. It would be nice to be able to move around our armies.
We haven't started the pentagon yet. Not sure if we wouldn't prefer more troops though.
handy900
Deity
Pre Turn
Hire specialists in size 6 cities with no aqueducts and extra food.
Move tiles in the corrupt cities to max food to speed population growth. Ill check each turn, if we can pull 2spt Ill go that route to speed up library builds.
Fix Ur so it grows, check that, Ill join a worker.
Got us to banking in 9 +35gpt
IBT
That worked out well.
I moved the caravels & fortified them with the last move next to an AI galleon. Galleon attacked & lost.
Muskets beat LBs on defense so we lost nothing.
St Pete musket - cav
Turn 1 1210
Cav beats bombarded musket.
IBT
A few AI land on the island. This is okay. We have a few cannon there to deal with these guys.
Turn 2 1220
Bomb & Kill a rifle & spawn a leader. He will go in a caravan to the other island to kick some booty with a few empty fortified caravels as protection.
BTW the Acav Army lasted through the IBT so it can pillage again.
IBT
Zulu build Newtons
Turn 3 1230
A worker is placed on each jungle tile to prevent the Ai from landing there. This forces them to the clear tiles with roads.
Turn 4 1240
The army is on the way to the island after picking up the main continents cavalry & cannon. Pillaging army is alone on the main continent now.
IBT
Not sure why all the landings are on the island we own, but thats where they are coming. Mostly Rifles and LBs
Turn 5 1250
IBT
Lose a musket on the island to LB attack.
Island residents need a harbor for happiness.
Turn 6 1255 Zulu town bites the dust on the island.
Turn 7 1260
Rush 3 libraries. Banking in 2 +60gpt for 2 turns, then back up for Magnetism.
Turn 8 1265
Rush another library
Banking in 1 turn, slider turned down.
Turn 9 1270
TOG in 9 turns +31 GPT
Turn 10 1275
Not pushing the army on the island since it is against rifles in a size 8 city. More cannon are on the way to support the army. We need to keep the cav army health bar in the green zone.
Notes:
Settler & musket are in Yekat Not sure we are ready to found on that island yet. The Acav army saw a ton of Mayan rifles heading to troop ships.
ToG in 8 +34 GPT with 72 in the bank.
We are at 52/59 with some border expansions due in the next couple of turns.
There are a couple of settlers are in process you can rush when we get the island cleared and are ready.
Another army is due in 7 more turns.
Not many recent landings, so expect a bunch of units soon.
I joined several workers to make cities bigger.
Ships with cannon are on the way to assist the army.
Next leader may want to upgrade some caravel to Galleons. We lost 1 ship in transit (nothing was on board.)
When I shipped units, I saved the last move to fortify the ships. I think it deterred some attacks.
Remember, 3-cav armies fit in a Galleon, 4-cav armies dont.
Sorry about the riot at Orenburg.
Irrigate Lagash & we can work another mountain.
The two libraries in process wont pick up many tiles, so rushing seemed like a waste of money. No reason to hurry these now.
Hire specialists in size 6 cities with no aqueducts and extra food.
Move tiles in the corrupt cities to max food to speed population growth. Ill check each turn, if we can pull 2spt Ill go that route to speed up library builds.
Fix Ur so it grows, check that, Ill join a worker.
Got us to banking in 9 +35gpt
IBT
That worked out well.
I moved the caravels & fortified them with the last move next to an AI galleon. Galleon attacked & lost.
Muskets beat LBs on defense so we lost nothing.
St Pete musket - cav
Turn 1 1210
Cav beats bombarded musket.
IBT
A few AI land on the island. This is okay. We have a few cannon there to deal with these guys.
Turn 2 1220
Bomb & Kill a rifle & spawn a leader. He will go in a caravan to the other island to kick some booty with a few empty fortified caravels as protection.
BTW the Acav Army lasted through the IBT so it can pillage again.
IBT
Zulu build Newtons
Turn 3 1230
A worker is placed on each jungle tile to prevent the Ai from landing there. This forces them to the clear tiles with roads.
Turn 4 1240
The army is on the way to the island after picking up the main continents cavalry & cannon. Pillaging army is alone on the main continent now.
IBT
Not sure why all the landings are on the island we own, but thats where they are coming. Mostly Rifles and LBs
Turn 5 1250
IBT
Lose a musket on the island to LB attack.
Island residents need a harbor for happiness.
Turn 6 1255 Zulu town bites the dust on the island.
Turn 7 1260
Rush 3 libraries. Banking in 2 +60gpt for 2 turns, then back up for Magnetism.
Turn 8 1265
Rush another library
Banking in 1 turn, slider turned down.
Turn 9 1270
TOG in 9 turns +31 GPT
Turn 10 1275
Not pushing the army on the island since it is against rifles in a size 8 city. More cannon are on the way to support the army. We need to keep the cav army health bar in the green zone.
Notes:
Settler & musket are in Yekat Not sure we are ready to found on that island yet. The Acav army saw a ton of Mayan rifles heading to troop ships.
ToG in 8 +34 GPT with 72 in the bank.
We are at 52/59 with some border expansions due in the next couple of turns.
There are a couple of settlers are in process you can rush when we get the island cleared and are ready.
Another army is due in 7 more turns.
Not many recent landings, so expect a bunch of units soon.
I joined several workers to make cities bigger.
Ships with cannon are on the way to assist the army.
Next leader may want to upgrade some caravel to Galleons. We lost 1 ship in transit (nothing was on board.)
When I shipped units, I saved the last move to fortify the ships. I think it deterred some attacks.
Remember, 3-cav armies fit in a Galleon, 4-cav armies dont.
Sorry about the riot at Orenburg.
Irrigate Lagash & we can work another mountain.
The two libraries in process wont pick up many tiles, so rushing seemed like a waste of money. No reason to hurry these now.
Well, this is coming to a close.
Do we want another Army, or do we want the Pentagon? Being able to add a 4th Cav to the army would bump the attack by 2 points in addition to adding HP. On the flip side we can't transport 4-member armies, so once one is formed it's stuck.
[Just have to try something ... Yes. You can disband an existing Army and get 100 shields towards the next Army build in Ur.
Maybe we can upgrade our Archer Army.]
I'm not sure Handy mentioned it, but the Zulu have Cavalry now. What happened to the Musket we had parked on their Horses?
As usual, check the MM. We can speed ToG by at least a turn. All size 12 cities have no reason to be running surplus food, even the core cities.
Do we want another Army, or do we want the Pentagon? Being able to add a 4th Cav to the army would bump the attack by 2 points in addition to adding HP. On the flip side we can't transport 4-member armies, so once one is formed it's stuck.
[Just have to try something ... Yes. You can disband an existing Army and get 100 shields towards the next Army build in Ur.
Maybe we can upgrade our Archer Army.]I'm not sure Handy mentioned it, but the Zulu have Cavalry now. What happened to the Musket we had parked on their Horses?
As usual, check the MM. We can speed ToG by at least a turn. All size 12 cities have no reason to be running surplus food, even the core cities.
Your comment on core cities is not always true TMcC. Often you lose science by making a scientist when you have banks since you often want to keep the shields and thus take off ocean squares. We don't have banks, but we also don't often gain any gold by taking them off the squares (in core cities that aren't corrupt).
I am still of the opinion we are going to have to invade the other continent to win. I also hope I am wrong....
I am still of the opinion we are going to have to invade the other continent to win. I also hope I am wrong....
handy900
Deity
T_McC said:
He was a victim of the Lord of the Bow.
T_McC said:
I didn't check each city, but in one core city I tested the GPT & science was a push working coast tile versus specialist. I guessed it was because of the multiplier effect of libraries & markets. I didn't check each city though, so Yom may want to do that. There are a couple of cities we can irrigate to allow us to work a mountain to gain an extra shield or two. Not much else for workers to do since we don't have rails yet. There is a big stack of workers I was bringing back to near the capital so they could begin rails from there.
Perhaps our coal is in the jungle on the nearby island. Maybe that's why the AI wants that island so bad.
Acav army saw a ton of units preparing to board boats, so expect some action on the homefront soon.
handy900
Deity
Yom said:
You are up YOM. I just swapped with you since you were busy & I was free. I's your turn now.
So TMcC is up and with me on deck.
HNDY05b - You Again!?!?
Quick check to confirm I'm playing from the proper save ... OK.
1275 AD (0)
MM to get ToG in 7.
Can't help but notice the Cavalry on our island. Bombard and dispose.
1280 AD (1)
4 Rifles, 6 Longbows, a Musket and a Crusader are dropped off on our island. Wake up the workers and batten down the hatches!
Also slip another couple of Cavs from the mainland to the island.
1285 AD (2)
pRNG pisses all over us on the IT, losing 3 of 5. Just for that I'll go for the worker-gang shore blockade.
More bad pRNG on our turn, dropping another couple of units and leaving a bunch of stuff exposed.
Burn Quirigua to the ground in disgust.
1290 AD (3)
We are at 54/60 for Domination.
1295 AD (4)
The pRNG giveth. 4 wins with no losses on the IT. Then Mayans land a replacement stack.
Settler heads out for Zulu island. We'll have Artillery and an Army to defend.
1300 AD (5)
Couple of leader chances but no bites.
1305 AD (6)
Zulu land some trash.
Found Dabrum on top of the Horse resource the Zulu had. Bit of a flip risk though 
Adjust to get ToG next turn.
1310 AD (7)
It's not dull over on the island. More folks land. Me need Army.
ToG is in, just for giggles I go "Big Picture" and pick Steam. Subliminal messages anyone ....
Woo-hoo! It bought. Research slammed on Ironclads.
The Mayans have coal, but they can't even keep roads built. The Zulu have none. We have two.
Ur builds Army, headed for a Galleon and our Island. Once we pop a leader there it can head for the Zulu continent.
1315 AD (8)
Kill some more Zulus, and that window of opportunity is closed as the Cav Army is on the scene.
The Zulu island is slow going because our Cannoneers suck.
1320 AD (9)
LB defeats vet Musket fortified on a Hill behind Walls.
Another 13 units land on our Island.
Kill 5 Zulu.
Burn Mpondo to the ground and the 2nd island is cleared.
1325 AD (10)
Lose a Cannon (temporarily), get pillaged, win two on IT.
Get Cannon back and kill another couple of Mayans.
Final Notes:
It should stay busy on our island. If desired, a couple more Cavs can be ferried across. I would just leave the Armies where they are until we get another. I still believe that by fully colonizing that second island we'll win the game. That Hill with the Horse was a less-than-inspired choice of where to start the colonizing, but what are you gonna do?
I don't expect this to get back to me unless we are only running 3 players. We are at 56/62 for Domination.
Quick check to confirm I'm playing from the proper save ... OK.
1275 AD (0)
MM to get ToG in 7.
Can't help but notice the Cavalry on our island. Bombard and dispose.
1280 AD (1)
4 Rifles, 6 Longbows, a Musket and a Crusader are dropped off on our island. Wake up the workers and batten down the hatches!
Also slip another couple of Cavs from the mainland to the island.
1285 AD (2)
pRNG pisses all over us on the IT, losing 3 of 5. Just for that I'll go for the worker-gang shore blockade.
More bad pRNG on our turn, dropping another couple of units and leaving a bunch of stuff exposed.
Burn Quirigua to the ground in disgust.
1290 AD (3)
We are at 54/60 for Domination.
1295 AD (4)
The pRNG giveth. 4 wins with no losses on the IT. Then Mayans land a replacement stack.
Settler heads out for Zulu island. We'll have Artillery and an Army to defend.
1300 AD (5)
Couple of leader chances but no bites.
1305 AD (6)
Zulu land some trash.
Found Dabrum on top of the Horse resource the Zulu had.
Bit of a flip risk though Adjust to get ToG next turn.
1310 AD (7)
It's not dull over on the island. More folks land. Me need Army.
ToG is in, just for giggles I go "Big Picture" and pick Steam. Subliminal messages anyone ....
Woo-hoo! It bought. Research slammed on Ironclads.
The Mayans have coal, but they can't even keep roads built. The Zulu have none. We have two.
Ur builds Army, headed for a Galleon and our Island. Once we pop a leader there it can head for the Zulu continent.
1315 AD (8)
Kill some more Zulus, and that window of opportunity is closed as the Cav Army is on the scene.
The Zulu island is slow going because our Cannoneers suck.
1320 AD (9)
LB defeats vet Musket fortified on a Hill behind Walls.
Another 13 units land on our Island.
Kill 5 Zulu.
Burn Mpondo to the ground and the 2nd island is cleared.
1325 AD (10)
Lose a Cannon (temporarily), get pillaged, win two on IT.
Get Cannon back and kill another couple of Mayans.
Final Notes:
It should stay busy on our island. If desired, a couple more Cavs can be ferried across. I would just leave the Armies where they are until we get another. I still believe that by fully colonizing that second island we'll win the game. That Hill with the Horse was a less-than-inspired choice of where to start the colonizing, but what are you gonna do?
I don't expect this to get back to me unless we are only running 3 players. We are at 56/62 for Domination.
