HOF Rules Discussion

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Aeson
I've noticed a new bug in C3C 1.15b, not sure if it works in other versions. The AI will always pay for your WM, even if there isn't anything new to show. You can trade your map over and over for a set amount of gold from the AI.

'Infinite Map Trading' will not be allowed in HOF games, as you could buy anything from the AI for upfront cash and get it all back for your Map. Trading your map once per turn per AI (or once per map update that AI wouldn't have had) is ok.

I don't know how you did it Aeson, but the AIs won't buy my map unless something has changed - not even for as little as 1 gold. Yes, I'm still playing with C3C 1.15beta at the moment. Still trying to finish up the current game so that I can move to patch 1.22.

 

[EMan]

Same here on 1.12b. (Well, maybe 1 Gold piece!)

 

[Aeson]

I've noticed it on two different maps I've played. I'll have to check with the map creators to see what is up. I think it may be that I'm playing in 1.15b on a map that wasn't created in 1.15b or something like that.

C3C 1.22f will probably be added to the allowed list and submission page soon. I have no playtime with it, and am not sure if it's going to be quickly followed up by another patch or not.

 

[superslug]

If Dianthus adds a feature to CRpMapStat where we can see the total tile counts of each terrain type, would use of such a feature be legal at 4000bc?

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Aeson
I've noticed it on two different maps I've played. I'll have to check with the map creators to see what is up. I think it may be that I'm playing in 1.15b on a map that wasn't created in 1.15b or something like that.

You are abosolute right about this trading gold for WM bug! The error was in my part (I didn't really know the correct procedure for reproducing this bug). I have tested it out last night by just simply offering them my WM and sure enough, they offer 1 gold back (only 1 gold - no more or less; if we put another item on the table, they won't accept it). So basically, in order to gain 100 gold, you pretty much had to trade 100 times! Even if you haven't disallowed it, I don't think anyone here (me included) would want to go that path.

 

[SirPleb]

I've loaded a couple of saves (1.15, no mods) and tried to trade my maps more than once. It didn't work, the AIs would only pay a few gold first time I traded.

But I have noticed a couple of times in my current game that the AIs offered me their maps for something (when I'm checking to see what they'd pay for X), when I was pretty sure I'd already traded for their maps earlier in the same turn. Seemed odd. Could be the same bug on the AI side of map trading.

I wonder if the infinite gold for maps bug is specific to some particular situation existing at the time? I.e. some bit of information on one's map being considered to be unknown to the other party when evaluating the map trade but not being passed on to the other party when maps are traded.

 

[Aeson]

I was getting up to 20g every offer, without uncovering any new tiles or even doing terrain improvements each turn. Still no idea why this was happening.

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With any given map settings, the numbers of different types of land tiles should be relatively constant. Domination limit and difficulty are far and away the largest factors on what the max milked score for a map will be. So I don't see any reason why tile counts would be illegal. I don't think they matter that much or that there will be a lot of variation on them.

Even if you do find a map with a lot of higher food terrain, coast form, player and AI starting locations, and Mountain/Hill placements may make it less suitable for milking than one with lower Grassland counts. Either way you're going to have to play the game out a bit to make that evaluation.

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A loss is acceptable as long as it qualifies for the high score list for that difficulty level. It won't be eligible for any of the other lists of course.

 

[Aeson]

C3C 1.22f will be supported. Just need some time to get upgraded on my end and figure out if I'm going to do another mirror install or just move to C3C 1.22f, PtW 1.27f, and Civ 1.29f and only allow submissions from those versions from now on.

 

[EMan]

Thanks for answering the questions, Aeson.

For clarification, am I correct in thinking that, with the exception of the "High Score List", games will be listed by "Win Date", with score being a tie-breaker if necessary?

 

[Aeson]

Yes.

 

[IgrOK[SU]]

just move to C3C 1.22f, PtW 1.27f, and Civ 1.29f and only allow submissions from those versions from now on.

I think it is a good idea!

 

[superslug]

If that happens, exemptions would be made for games already in progress, would they not? Other than that it's not a bad idea given that they've somewhat smoothed out C3C...

 

[EMan]

@Aeson: To be CONSISTENT, how about an HOF Table, listing Map Sizes by Histographic Victory......for the Dairy Farmers of the World!?

Presumably, the original thinking was that Histographic Victories (Milk Runs) would always beat other victories by score and thus be on the HOF High-Score Table.......BUT, this doesn't apply to smaller Map Sizes, played at lower levels.....where Conquest Victory always takes the High Score!

Currently, for example, Chieftess' Regent Level Milk Run on a Tiny Map can NEVER make the HOF High-Score Table!

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by IgrOK

just move to C3C 1.22f, PtW 1.27f, and Civ 1.29f and only allow submissions from those versions from now on.

I think it is a good idea!

It is a good idea if you aren't in the middle of a game. I'm currently in the mid of another Sid game in path 1.15b. It has been taking me a long time to get this far (a little bit after 1000 AD - score around 20K so far with a final projected score of over 70K). I still have 3 more AIs and two continents to invade, but I think I will win.

Btw, I don't think SirPleb current Sid game is with patch 1.22f either. It would be very sad if Aeson decide to accept only patch 1.22f for C3C from now on.

 

[Svar]

I have to agree with Moonsinger here. Since C3C 1.22 isn't backwards compatable any switch needs advance notice of maybe 2 months for people to finish current games. I personnelly have't even downloaded 1.22 yet.

 

[Aeson]

If a change in versions allowed is made there will certainly be a grace period for current games to finish.

I haven't downloaded C3C 1.22f yet either and currently don't even have Civ/PtW/C3C installed due to ongoing computer upgrades. Previously I had a mirror installation for most of the PtW and C3C patches, a couple of the pre-Civ 1.29f patches that won't load in 1.29f (for looking at 'old' HOF games), along with various GOTM versions in Civ and PtW formats... it's too much of a hassle and a HD space drain to continue to do so.

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Histographic will be given it's own lists. To qualify for the Histographic list, a game will need to be played out all the way to 2050 AD, and may win (or lose) by any condition at that date.

 

[EMan]

Originally posted by Aeson
Histographic will be given it's own lists. To qualify for the Histographic list, a game will need to be played out all the way to 2050 AD, and may win (or lose) by any condition at that date.

[dance] :jump:

 

[superslug]

New questions:
1) Can posters be disbarred from the HoF, have their games removed and be banned from all future participation for smiley only posts?

2) If #1 is applied, can we not extend the precedent to spammers?

[/humor]

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
I'm currently in the mid of another Sid game in path 1.15b. It has been taking me a long time to get this far (a little bit after 1000 AD - score around 20K so far with a final projected score of over 70K).

70K!

That's going to be quite something to see Moonsinger, My current game won't be anywhere near that. I'm starting to think I won't even break 60K.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by SirPleb
70K!

That's going to be quite something to see Moonsinger, My current game won't be anywhere near that. I'm starting to think I won't even break 60K.

Thanks SirPleb! This one was a new Sid game that I started about 3 weeks ago (after seeing how much fun you were having with your Sid game, I just couldn't resist to start another one). When I have time, I will start up a thread on that. It will be totally eclipsed by your Funnel of Doom anyway, but I had some great battles and a lot of fun so far...going against the AIs' stack of doom (like withstanding their 300 plus rifflemans against my newly established beach head was really no picnic).