Holy god, this mod is complex!

[wfsaxton]

Well, I've been playing for a few days now and I LOVE it. I don't think I'll ever go back to vanilla BTS

My only concern, so far, is the complexity of the game. I'm basically as confused as hell. This mod has about 100x more things to do than Civ 4 and I'm worried that I'll never understand it

For example:
- My cities never run out of stuff to build....seems that building is a lot slower, compared to tech levels, than BTS
- Soooo, many techs. I seem to be picking things willy-nilly, rather than devising a strategy
- 100 types of mana; I have no idea which ones to get, which ones are good with which races, etc
- Race specific techs; I was just the Illians and my head was about to explode; turning your surroundings to ice? Playing without any religion? Ahhhhhhhh

Any advice?

 

[Goodgimp]

My advice is to take it slow Things will come in time, but thankfully you have a Civ4 background so at least you understand basic mechanics.

Magic is an entire layer of detail but it's not that complex. I'd say pick a few mana types at random or just go off of what your race starts with (you'll notice that your racial palace provides mana, you start with some as the game begins).

Example: Say you're playing a civ that starts with Fire and Air. Go to the Civopedia and look up the promotions:

Air I
Air II
Air III
Fire I
Fire II
Fire III

In the pedia entry for them, it'll tell you what spell it gives access to. Take a look at what options are available to you, get familiar with the spells, then just expand from there. Don't worry, a Civ doesn't need (and will doubtfully have) access to all mana types in order to succeed.

Regarding the Illians, I'd leave them for a bit while you familiarize yourself more with the mod. They play in a very non-traditional manner. I would recommend something like the Bannor if you're feeling overwhelmed, they're fairly straight-forward so you'll be able to focus more of your attention on core mod mechanics.

Also another note about building things in your cities, it's the design of Fall From Heaven that you need to pick and choose what buildings to have in what city, rather than build everything everywhere. While it is possible to do so, as you can see it's a difficult feat to accomplish. Focus on what buildings are important for that particular town (libraries for research towns, unit-producing buildings in high production towns, you get the idea).

If you have some more questions about particular areas of the game, feel free to add them to the thread and I'll answer them when I'm able, as I'm sure others in the community will

Welcome to the mod!

 

[hbar]

A few other key differences:

The tech tree is not linear. There are several different 'branches' depending on your playstyle, each with its own strength (except archery ). Initially, you should focus on the metal/melee line for units and the economy line for, um, economy.

Promotions are vastly more powerful in FfH and its modmods then they were in base BtS (most are doubled in strength, and there are many new ones as well). Protect your high-level troops - eventually, they'll get to a point where they can single-handedly take on a civ. Also, make sure you know who your civ's hero is and what they do. The differences between Alkazan, Loki, and Corlindale are far more then cosmetic!

Finally, never be afraid to ask for advice on the forums. Every one of us has climbed the learning curve, and there are new things to discover every game.

 

[Sephi]

Xienwolf wrote a Manual for FFH2. Might give you a good overview

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8635

there are a few minor differences to Wildmana though.

 

[wfsaxton]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I just beat my first game on Monarch. I was the Circus civilization...they were pretty easy to learn and Loki is the king of worker stealing Has anyone figured out any other use for him? I seriously started my first war just so I could take 2 workers from my neighbor, haha.

So I tried to keep my cities specialized. Water/rivers ones high tech. Hills/forest ones production.

I was able to build the Necro tower, but I really didn't use any adepts/mages or spells @ all. Once I got Ashen Veil religion, the priests that heal and do AOE flame damage were the allstars. The fact that they turned into temples during peacetime were a bonus! Also, the civic that makes your people only consume 1 food seems REALLY overpowered.

So one thing I was confused about...I purposely pushed up the AC to see what would happen. Discovered Blight...that REALLY sucks. What's the purpose behind AC? Why would anyone purposely push it up, other than to maybe screw other Evil civs? I'm not sure how well it effected them, but my charior/priest/hero columns took them out one after the other.

Overall, I found it to be pretty easy...every game I've played, I built the 3 hill giant world wonder and then cream the nearest civ. That also seems a bit OP to me.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Loki can enter rival cities even with no OB, and flip cities that aren't generating any culture. AIs you do this to will really hate you. (-4 diplo penalty per city stolen, never wears off)

Sheaim have a building that generates free units based on how high the AC is. Infernals are immune to many of its negative effects. No one else wants to raise the AC. A high AC, blight and all, is your punishment for following AV.

Religions are much stronger in FfH than they are in BtS. Order, for instance, gives you a mounted hero on par with AV's, a free missionary in every city you spread it to, an extra courthouse that stacks with the normal one, and a priest unit that gives a whole stack +1 strength for its next battle... and I consider it the weakest FfH religion. AV's civic and priests are strong even for FfH, but you have to put up with the AC events in return.

 

[blade117]

^^^
What about Esus. Seems quite weak to me.

 

[Humakty]

Esus has its shrine, which renders every units in your borders invisible. Meaning you can have assassins and mages pummeling ennemy stacks in the open without fear of retaliation. This is really gorgeous.
They lack priests, but regeneration spell is here to alleviate this weakness, anyway you won't regret having body mana... Sure you can't cure disease, so swich religion if you face a diseased corpse heavy army.
The only real drawback is the lack of temple. Can you live without +2 happy face ?
Shadow riders are really powerfull, even if they come late. Four extra knights ? yes please !

 

[arstal]

Tweakmod had some good Esus mechanics to make them more interesting and buff them up.

 

[Afterthought_bt]

Esus has its shrine, which renders every units in your borders invisible. Meaning you can have assassins and mages pummeling ennemy stacks in the open without fear of retaliation. This is really gorgeous.
They lack priests, but regeneration spell is here to alleviate this weakness, anyway you won't regret having body mana... Sure you can't cure disease, so swich religion if you face a diseased corpse heavy army.
The only real drawback is the lack of temple. Can you live without +2 happy face ?
Shadow riders are really powerfull, even if they come late. Four extra knights ? yes please !

Well, religious heroes are a drawback too, but, even though you still only have the one hero, with Wildmana's spell books, and the arcane mastery module, suddenly Gibbon Goetia looks a lot nicer! Although you aren't going to use his special ability if you go that route I guess... hehe

 

[Neomega]

Well, religious heroes are a drawback too, but, even though you still only have the one hero, with Wildmana's spell books, and the arcane mastery module, suddenly Gibbon Goetia looks a lot nicer! Although you aren't going to use his special ability if you go that route I guess... hehe

Actually, the spellbooks weaken the value of Gibbon Goetia, because they usually provide at least one archmage spell... which is usually enough. I mean, I like to spread 0out my archmage spells, so I can cast multiple tier III spells. Having Gibbon use all the spellbooks would mean that you had one caster with many archmage spells... meaning only one tier III spell could be cast a turn.

Esus has its shrine, which renders every units in your borders invisible. Meaning you can have assassins and mages pummeling ennemy stacks in the open without fear of retaliation. This is really gorgeous.

Nox Noctis is cool... but you don't have to have Esus as your state religion to use it... so it's not really an Esus trait. Same with shadows. Shadows are the only unit I know of that simply requires the religion in the city to be built. Esus giving mask to units with it's religion is cool too, but again, you don't have to follow Esus to use it.

Even so, I use it for the Sidar, because it fits the flavor the best... and because nightwatch have a special ability. You guarantee Esus to a unit... and it can upgrade to an assassin. Armies of HN assassins (or ghosts or chanters or ghosts/chanters, upgraded to marksmen, that are HN with stealth or escape), nightwatch, and shadowriders, with gibbons mistform to create easy kills for your assassins, and you can decimate an army before you declare war on it.... or you can cull it as it marches through your territory. It is great for balancing world powers to the civs you want ot rise or fall, without having to worry about retaliation....

even though, IMHO, there should be a 1/100 chance that every time a HN unit attacks a friendly unit, you can get a -1 diplomacy modifier (We suspect you support rogue armies that attack us!)

So really, Esus is all about building the best assassin units in the world.... and that makes it a very powerful religion. Also, teh ease of spreading the religion., and keeping eyes on any city with the religion has it's advantages. Esus is about being hidden, and seeing all.

 

[Goodgimp]

Esus stuff

I admit I haven't played much with Esus, so that was a terrific writeup, Neomega. Thanks for taking the time to post that.

 

[Afterthought_bt]

Actually, the spellbooks weaken the value of Gibbon Goetia, because they usually provide at least one archmage spell... which is usually enough. I mean, I like to spread 0out my archmage spells, so I can cast multiple tier III spells. Having Gibbon use all the spellbooks would mean that you had one caster with many archmage spells... meaning only one tier III spell could be cast a turn.

First off, no-one said you have to use all the spell books with Gibbon.

But also, you forget about the arcane mastery module. The sooner you get Death, Shadow, Chaos, and Entropy 3, the sooner you can get the Wicked promo on all your units, for example. Get your Gibbon upto 100xp through the hero promo before reading the spell books, and with the extra xp and without even having fought once... well, you know the rest.

 

[seizer]

With council of esus as your state religion, your units are not removed from a civ's territory when you declare war, allowing you (ideally) to kill the civ on the turn you declare war.

 

[Neomega]

With council of esus as your state religion, your units are not removed from a civ's territory when you declare war, allowing you (ideally) to kill the civ on the turn you declare war.

theoretically, but, I think they still do get removed... (at least they do in 6.3)