Holy War with No Religion!

[Bridgeboy69]

I have no religion. I never get one in any game; the AI's always grab them up way before me. I do have one pantheon, but that's it. I'm playing on Deity.

Germany scolded me awhile back for my prothlysizers in his territory (I have none as it's impossible with no religion).

Now he just declared a Holy War on me even though we've been otherwise getting along well. He'll destroy me as he is so far ahead of me in military land-units tech. I have a huge Navy but it won't help me where he is attacking me on land.

Everytime I start to get excited to play this game because of a new patch fixing a bunch of problems, some new bug always screws up my game.

I've never love/hated a game so much.

 

[Leyrann]

Do you have a majority religion maybe? Wouldn't explain the apostle problems, I guess, but it would explain the Holy War I think.

 

[Bridgeboy69]

Do you have a majority religion maybe? Wouldn't explain the apostle problems, I guess, but it would explain the Holy War I think.

No I don't have a majority religion. As a matter of fact most of my cities are still just on my pantheon and have not been converted to a religion yet.

This is the description for a holy war: "Used to declare war on a power that has Religiously converted one of your cities. All Warmonger penalties halved."

I haven't converted any cities as I don't own a religion and cannot create apostles. I am allied with China, however, who has a religion and sends apostles around, so Germany may (erroneously) be blaming me for it.

Another apparent glitch is that Russia is at war with me and they had their apostles in my lands and the game let my military units land on them and they disappeared and -(negative) influence for their religion came out of my nearby cities. I don't know what that was all about as I thought military units couldn't kill religious units...I thought only religious units could interact with religious units.

 

[Morningcalm]

Could be a bug? Would need save files at different stages in the game to confirm though.

 

[Bridgeboy69]

Could be a bug? Would need save files at different stages in the game to confirm though.

I probably have plenty of saves. I save a lot. Tell me what you need me to do and I'll share them, or upload them or whatever.

I also posted a bug report on it here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/at-war-bugs-latest-patch-out-now-04-16-2017.614215/

 

[peurojoque]

If you're at war, you can kill an enemy religious unit with a military unit and decrease the opponent's religious influence in the surrounding cities, including those of other civilizations. If you manage to convert one of your neighbor's cities in the process, they have the right to be upset. But it's definitely not a bug, it's a way to defend yourself against a religious opponent. How else are you going to do it, if you don't have religion yourself?

Also, considering is Freddie, I'm surprised he actually needs a reason to declare a holy war in this game. They should have made this CB available to him by default

 

[Bridgeboy69]

If you're at war, you can kill an enemy religious unit with a military unit and decrease the opponent's religious influence in the surrounding cities, including those of other civilizations. If you manage to convert one of your neighbor's cities in the process, they have the right to be upset. But it's definitely not a bug, it's a way to defend yourself against a religious opponent. How else are you going to do it, if you don't have religion yourself?

Also, considering is Freddie, I'm surprised he actually needs a reason to declare a holy war in this game. They should have made this CB available to him by default

But I'm the one with no religion. Frederick owns Catholicism. Peter of Russia owns Eastern Orthodoxy. I simply have the pantheon of "God of the Sea." Peter started a war with me, I apparently killed a few of his apostles in my territory by landing military units on them, negative influence from Eastern Orthodoxy "left" my cities, and perhaps nearby German cities too, and perhaps converted them to "some other religion" but it certainly wasn't MY religion, as I own no religion. If Freddie of Germany is going to get upset at somebody, it should be the owner of whatever religion converted his cities.

Makes no sense to me...

FWIW, I agree he could have declared war on me for any number of other reasons, but this Holy War makes no sense at all, and how can we strategically play a game that follows no logic?!

 

[peurojoque]

Yeah, I got it. One of their cities had been converted as a result of your actions, the game has no way of knowing of it was an accident or a part of a strategic plan, so it treats them equally. Say, you could have done the same by having a single religious city with a holy site and a few missionaries. You don't even need your own religion, just plant a city next to a Lavra.

 

[Bridgeboy69]

Yeah, I got it. One of their cities had been converted as a result of your actions, the game has no way of knowing of it was an accident or a part of a strategic plan, so it treats them equally. Say, you could have done the same by having a single religious city with a holy site and a few missionaries. You don't even need your own religion, just plant a city next to a Lavra.

This makes no sense to me. Why shouldn't the game know whose religion converted their cities? How and why should they blame a completely separate country which has no religion for converting their cities to some other country's religion? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to me; completely illogical...as Spock would say.

 

[peurojoque]

Well, this is a case of YMMV, as this mechanic makes total sense to me

Basically, if I'm trying to be a quiet religious ruler, while my neighbor is busy burning churches right across the border and all these refugees flow in and start spreading foul words about the Almighty, whom should I blame? Well, first I let the inquisition deal with the refugees, but then it's time to teach my infidel neighbor a lesson about righteousness. And I'm actually glad that the AI agrees with me on that