homeyg01, SID

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Since you're looking for advice...

About the factory, we have our 5 food with the FPW, and 6/7 shields at sizes 5/6 with a mined sugar, watered plains (at worse, we can irrigate a FP and mine a plain). That's 6+6+7+7=26, add the 2x2 shields on growth with the forst and we have a realy nice 4 turner. I'd be for settling first, see if there's more chops available.

Depending on the chops, warrior-granary-settler or warrior-worker-granary-settler. By that time it should be nearly or at 5fpt with 30shields/4t. With minimal management every other turn. Irrigate/mine first, road 2nd, move 3rd. Irrigating is faster so I'd go FPW-plain(just S)-sugar, for instance, if that's what you were asking about.

On research, we can't risk min research and we shouldn't hope for IW first if any other civ is SCI (starts with bronze). Check F10, if anyone knows Bronze I'd work on alpha(start and trade)-math-currency; if we're a loner there, full steam on IW and hope we can grab the currency route. SID makes anything writing/republic useless except maybe Lit.

That's all an idiot's opinion though, feel free to disregard and listen to the other ones.

 

[Obormot]

Well, if you guys really want to beat sid, then you should be able to estimate whether building a granary is a good idea or not! A 4-turner IS possible here at size 5-6, but it requires a lot of work and researching pottery (or taking a chance that you can get it by trade).

What you really need to know before making a decision on how to procede is how close the AI are. Usually the AI on sid and expand so fast, that it is better to found about 5 cities or so and then sword-rush them while they are still in expansion mode after a min-run on IW. But it may be wrong if they are too far away, especially if it is a 60% water map.

I would start a min-run on IW and build 1-2 warriors to explore, then 1-2 settlers. If there are no AI close to us, you can discard the beakers invested in IW (20 gold or so is not important), get pottery full-steam and setup a SF (using barracks as prebuild).

EDIT on crosspost: you cannot chop forest, because then you won't get the magic 2 shields from growth. Literature is obviously a tech you should aim for, all other techs you won't get as monopolies, even currency is quite risky. But an IW min-run isw not that bad for that purpose, with some luck you can trade masonry for alpha and then extort writing for peace. Literature can get you many techs, but you'll still end up behind, it just seems inevitable on sid/non-archipelago.

 

[homeyg]

3 Civs that start with BW, 2 that start with Alpha:

 

[choxorn]

EDIT on crosspost: you cannot chop forest, because then you won't get the magic 2 shields from growth. Literature is obviously a tech you should aim for, all other techs you won't get as monopolies, even currency is quite risky.

lurker's comment: On lower difficulty levels, Lit could get you the GL, and other techs could get you other wonders, but on Sid, you'd have to be very lucky to actually get an AAGW. (Note: I am a low difficulty level player ) Sorry if this message is

 

[Tribute]

I believe the forest chops are meant to speed the granary. If not, then the chop probably solely refers to forest tiles, not actually cutting them down.

Beorn was probably using the if-then method to describe what the build order should be in different situations.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

using the if-then method

Since the fog-gazing SW is unclear about the forestation, it's a classical if-then to me, thanks for pointing out I'm not clear yet again. My english should improve over the next while, I'll have an american roomie. But 'til then ...

 

[soul_warrior]

i agree with Obormot.

we need to explore a bit before we commit to the full research.

we can make a 4 turner, but that is for later.

for now how about a warrior > warrior > rax/settler > granary (if were alone)?
science? start on Iron for a few turns, till we can explore a bit (say 10 turns).
see whats around, and decide then if we dump it for pots, or run full on to swords

 

[Mirc]

Lots of information to read...

I have some questions though.
What is "rax/settler"?
What is a "if-then" method?

Anyway, got it. I will play soon.

 

[soul_warrior]

Lots of information to read....

indeed

I have some questions though.
What is "rax/settler"?
What is a "if-then" method?

edited for clarity!!!

rax = short for BARRACKS. it is meant to be either a prebuild for a granary, or if we are hemmed in > A SETTLER for early land grab

if-then, is a computer programmer dialect.
it meants that "IF" there are forests to chop "THEN" we can chop or use on growth.
it is meant in reference to an unknown factor (such as our unexplored land)
we can GUESS what is out there, but till we get a warrior out there we dot really know, and have to "fog-gaze"

 

[Mirc]

Oh, thanks for the info!

if-then, is a computer programmer dialect.

Yeah, I know programming, just I never thought it has any connection with this. I am pretty good at Pascal but still a complete newbie at C++.

 

[homeyg]

I played a few test games with the same settings (and barbs), and it seems nearly impossible to get to Currency before every other AI gets it (not to mention, impossible to get the techs leading up to Currency before the AI's get them).

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

I have never gotten currency or const first in any sid game. It is not even a sure thing to get Philo first, when starting with alpha. About 60-40 I would say in some 30 games of sid, played to conclusion.

I will admit I never had it as a goal, so maybe it could be done, but you would need some things to go right.

 

[homeyg]

Lurker:

I have never gotten currency or const first in any sid game. It is not even a sure thing to get Philo first, when starting with alpha. About 60-40 I would say in some 30 games of sid, played to conclusion.

I will admit I never had it as a goal, so maybe it could be done, but you would need some things to go right.

I was thinking another possibility would be to go straight for Literature (just for the trading, not for the GL), but this doesn't seem plausible since we don't start with Alpha.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Then all points to the IW rush, with our starting techs.

 

[vmxa]

I was thinking another possibility would be to go straight for Literature (just for the trading, not for the GL), but this doesn't seem plausible since we don't start with Alpha.

You can get to Lit first much of the time without Alpha, because it is very common for them to not research Lit and go straight to the next age.

 

[homeyg]

You can get to Lit first much of the time without Alpha, because it is very common for them to not research Lit and go straight to the next age.

Alright, I'm beginning to think this is the better plan, and this might sound completely insane/crazy, but we might want to build a city specially designed for prebuilding/building the Great Library.

 

[ThERat]

In our successful sid game last time, we missed the GL by a mere few turns. It is possible to get there, but you need a dedicated city very early on.

The IW min run would be a good choice before going for lit IHMO

 

[Mirc]

There are so many different opinions that I forget the first ones before reading the last ones.

So please tell me, when I start the game, what should I do?

 

[choxorn]

Like I said, the easier the difficultly level, the easier it is to build GW's. Unfortunately, the GL is never much use. On the low difficulty levels, you'll have such a huge tech advantage anyway (but you can still build it to keep the AI from getting it ), and it's too hard to get it on higher difficulty levels unless you dedicate precious time and resources to it. If you do manage to get the GL on a high difficulty level, be prepared to ride it's elevator to a huge tech lead. However, it's probably easier to build military and take from the AI when you've just entered the middle ages. At that point, the AI's will probably already be near the end of the Industrial ages, and you might get more out of it.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

choxorn you cannot get a tech lead from the GLB, it only gives you tech that others already know. The value, when there is one, is that you can stop researching and save up cash.

The reason it is of little use other than deity and sid, is you have to keep researching anyway on all but Demi. That is the one level it is a coin flip.

Dedicating the effort can payoff at the top levels, when you pull it off.

None of what I mentioned is intented to suggest one course or the other, just a response to a question.