Homm

[Rub'Rum]

Um... In the grand scheme of gaming, Heroes and Age of Wonders are extremely similar games. Even in the turn-based genre they are rather similar when compared to another turn-based genre like Civilization, GalCiv, etc. Anyway, I agree with Red Key (aka that guy who always talks about AoW (you're still a-ok as far as I can tell )), Age of Wonders is slightly superior in my opinion. But not by much, certain days I want to play Heroes more.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Although I hear good things about Age of Wonders I stick my support for HoM&M, especilly for the stories in 3 and 4.

Also the Shadow of Death expantion for HoM&M 3 is a show of the awesomeness that is Sandro!

I also like how the factions set on themes instead of races.

As for 5... I have... issues with 5. To quote what I said on the game music thread on BTL:

Finally for this post is HoM&M5. To confess I... was not impressed by the game myself. Now it did have good things but it did have things like bad writting for the storyline (complete with questionable voice acting), the focus on factions being of a dominant species instead of themes (do we need two elfen powers?) and a butchery of the dungeon as 3 of the things I was not amused by. Music wise though it had great tracks (the Haven Town Theme was pure patriotism) and some... otherwise (the Dungeon theme is meh, which is not good for a series of grand themes). The Necromancer theme... I give it points for serving as a dark counter to the Haven theme, although I take away points for it not sharing the subtle feelings of death, instead focusing on shouting "EVIL!" Still this town theme is good.

I have not played nor to I attend to play 6.

 

[civvver]

So I'm determined to play through them all in order... we'll see how long that lasts. I finished 1's campaign. It was pretty challenging, kinda refreshing for a game like that where you can usually sit back and just out build everyone.

Now on to 2! Initial thoughts are wow! tons of improvements over 1. I really like the new spell system as it seems to put a much bigger emphasis on casting and makes a bigger difference in playstyles between the magic user heroes and the barbarian/knight. We'll see how it plays out. Fun so far.

 

[Yeekim]

So I'm determined to play through them all in order... we'll see how long that lasts. I finished 1's campaign. It was pretty challenging, kinda refreshing for a game like that where you can usually sit back and just out build everyone.

Now on to 2! Initial thoughts are wow! tons of improvements over 1. I really like the new spell system as it seems to put a much bigger emphasis on casting and makes a bigger difference in playstyles between the magic user heroes and the barbarian/knight. We'll see how it plays out. Fun so far.

When we were playing multiplayer in Homm 2, whenever someone was playing wizard/warlcok/sorceress faction, his first move would be to check the tavern for a barbarian or knight.

Magic user heroes are just completely inferior.

 

[civvver]

Probably because they don't become really powerful until they get higher level spells. Then their superior spell power is a real advantage. I can see in multiplayer how you'd rather have an early advantage. But for single player warlocks and necromancers are amazing.

On a separate note, HOMM is obviously turned based strategy but would it be considered 4x? I mean you do explore, you do expand by capturing more towns, you do exploit resources and you do exterminate everyone else to win. But the "mission" like feel of shorter games and the fact that all mines/towns are predetermined and you never found them takes it away from traditional feel of 4x games like civ and moo. I guess I think it's technically a 4x game but I've never thought of it as one.

 

[civvver]

I think the first Heroes of Might and Magic game was among the first, if not the first, game(s) I played.

Heroes of Might and Magic 3 is among the grander of a grand series. Heroes 2 and 4 are close to it.

I personally suggest GOG for the games.

...and remember when facing necromancers:

This is totally awesome. I didn't get it at first but I'm playing the campaign as evil side and am on a mission where you have to slay a bunch of peasants. Literally groups of 5 stacks of 800. And you start with a necromancer hero. I have over 4000 skeletons in my army and am only half way done with the mission lol.

 

[Yeekim]

Probably because they don't become really powerful until they get higher level spells. Then their superior spell power is a real advantage.

Uh... no. Quite the opposite, actually.
Dealing a few hundred damage points with spells could be significant early on, or on a tiny map, when creature stacks are still small. Later, effect that attack/defense ratings of might based heroes have on creatures will far, FAR outclass any damage-based spells.

Modest spell power of 5 or so was entirely sufficient for mass haste/slow/blind, which were, imho, best combat spells in the game.

EDIT: Necros actually could get half-decent attack rating and, well, skeletons eventually became a problem if said necromancer could collect them for too long.

 

[Jarrema]

I am huge fan of HoMM series

As a teenager, HoMM 3 (Armageddon Blade expansion) was the game I played most. Like three times more than Civ, Master of Magic, Panzer General and few others game combined.
And I love the 3rd part most.
There is also huge fan-made mod for this version, called 'Wake of Gods'. It is also named 'HoMM 3.5'. And this is the best game I ever played.

Well, maybe not necessarilly. Objectively, HoMM V are even better. But they do not give me the same feeling. I played them for few months, and I am not going back to them. But I still sometimes play HoMM 3.5

And, tbh, I totaly dislike Heroes VI, and I am not big fan of HoMM 4. But my friend says, HoMM 4 is the best, just not similar to other ones...

 

[coanda]

Uh... no. Quite the opposite, actually.
Dealing a few hundred damage points with spells could be significant early on, or on a tiny map, when creature stacks are still small. Later, effect that attack/defense ratings of might based heroes have on creatures will far, FAR outclass any damage-based spells.

Modest spell power of 5 or so was entirely sufficient for mass haste/slow/blind, which were, imho, best combat spells in the game.

EDIT: Necros actually could get half-decent attack rating and, well, skeletons eventually became a problem if said necromancer could collect them for too long.

I always found spellcasting-based heroes to be stronger against AIs, and might-based heroes stronger against other players. There were many spells that a human opponent might be hurt by, but an AI could be absolutely abused with (see also: Slow). Since early-game battles tended to be primarily to clear out creeps, I found myself getting a better early start with a spellcaster instead of a might hero.

Pair that with the fact that spellcasting heroes could move about the map faster at high level with stuff like Summon Boat, Town Portal, Water Walk, Fly, Dimension Door letting you keep your whole stack together and yet defend or attack on several fronts at once. So I tended to favor caster heroes - not because I'd rather have a level-15 Cleric with a 4000-man army instead of a level-15 Knight with a 4000-man army, but because I'd rather have that cleric and army instead of a level-10 Knight with a 2000-man army.

And, of course, when playing the campaigns instead of multiplayer, caster heroes all the way. A high-level caster hero really doesn't even need troops to beat massive stacks of AI enemies.

 

[Ailedhoo]

...I am not big fan of HoMM 4. But my friend says, HoMM 4 is the best, just not similar to other ones...

HoM&M4 is like marmite: your either are a cultist for the stuff or you wish to set on a holy war against it.

 

[Yeekim]

I always found spellcasting-based heroes to be stronger against AIs, and might-based heroes stronger against other players. There were many spells that a human opponent might be hurt by, but an AI could be absolutely abused with (see also: Slow). Since early-game battles tended to be primarily to clear out creeps, I found myself getting a better early start with a spellcaster instead of a might hero.

Pair that with the fact that spellcasting heroes could move about the map faster at high level with stuff like Summon Boat, Town Portal, Water Walk, Fly, Dimension Door letting you keep your whole stack together and yet defend or attack on several fronts at once. So I tended to favor caster heroes - not because I'd rather have a level-15 Cleric with a 4000-man army instead of a level-15 Knight with a 4000-man army, but because I'd rather have that cleric and army instead of a level-10 Knight with a 2000-man army.

And, of course, when playing the campaigns instead of multiplayer, caster heroes all the way. A high-level caster hero really doesn't even need troops to beat massive stacks of AI enemies.

Yeah, I was talking about multiplayer (and Homm2), although it largely holds true for Homm3 as well.
Still, best spells such as Town Portal or Dimension Door don't need high spellpower. Just make sure to drop by a well.

Agreed about campaigns.

 

[sherbz]

Ahh the age old debate over Magic and might. Personally I think that neither is superior to the other. In a straight one to one fight you would pick a might hero. But this detracts from one of the main strengths of a magic hero, which is that they are much quicker and better at clearing out the surrounding map than a might hero. Also might heroes have to rely on wells to a greater or lesser extent, whereas magic users can run around for twice as long and not deplete their magic. A might hero with expert water magic (for bless) is a formidable opponent in a straight up fight. If you play the barbarian faction and get expert water and bless, attack with a stack of ancient behemoths and you will see what i mean.

 

[civvver]

In the multiplayer what's a typical army size? Because in campaign I took my level 15 warlock with ligtning spells that were doing 500 dmg a hit. I crushed the last AI hero even though he had 8 or so titans and 30 upgraded mages, my bolts did double the damage of my best troops.

 

[coanda]

I don't think there was (is? Do people still play HoMM3?) a typical army size; it depended on the map you chose.

And I'm not debating that spell power and knowledge could be devastating - just saying that for any one battle, very high attack/defense stats plus a large army tended to do better. Every point in attack or defense is a 5% damage swing for your whole army (+1 defense, your whole army takes 5% less damage; +1 attack, your whole army deals 5% more damage). If you were doing 500 damage with a lightning bolt, you had 20 spellpower. You probably had comparable defense as well. Swap that for your attack stats instead, and your best troops are doing as much damage as your lightning bolts would have been... plus your whole army is taking half damage, and all your other troops are doing more damage as well.

On the other hand, I also still insist that the fringe benefits of magic heroes tended to make them more versatile and more useful. They moved better, started stronger, and won battles against more AI monsters with fewer losses.

 

[civvver]

Yeah but without a large enough army the 5% dmg isn't going to be equal to an additional shot of a 500 dmg spell. I'm also talking #2 here for this example, haven't gotten to #3 yet. In the campaign my armies are usually a few groups of middle level guys around size 20 and a group of 5-10 high level guys. I think the battle I described I had around 15 upgraded mages and 5 or so titans plus 20 or so golems. We beat an army twice our size because I had powerful spells. Extra attack and defense would've been not as good since my army wasn't that big. But it's a very isolated case against AI, not humans.

Ultimately I end up preferring warlocks and wizards just because they have the two most powerful units which they AI simply can't counter, titans and black dragons. The AI is really good at guerrilla type warfare, sending a bunch of small armies around to pillage all your resources and they peck away at your strength slowly. I've found the best counter is to amass an overwhelmingly powerful force that can kill their smaller armies with no or little losses and go for their cities while they take your mines. 6-7 dragons or titans and you're likely to win a battle with no losses.

 

[civvver]

Just fyi since we're talking about it, heroes 6 is the daily deal on steam for $12.

 

[Yeekim]

This thread got me pumped enough to reinstall HOMM2.
Completed the Revolution! map in 90 days on Impossible difficulty.
Some things you won't forget.

 

[civvver]

Man the campagin is brutal! I actually had to go look at some walkthroughs. I am playing on archibald's side and I choose to save the necromancers, big mistake. Having the ogres on your side is just so op, but you get zero hints your decision is going to be that drastic. I was literally about ready to quit playing after that dragon king mission.

 

[sherbz]

I don't think there was (is? Do people still play HoMM3?)

People certainly play it on single player (im one of them). Im building a campaign as we speak which im creating in the map editor (if anyone wants to be a guinea pig and be a play tester for me than please shout as i need someone to test the maps out on).

People do still play multiplayer but i think you will often find that many of these games take place via a direct connection because players know each other. To my knowledge there are no servers.

 

[civvver]

Are the 3 campaigns easier than 2? Because 2 was brutal, I eventually gave up. Most of the missions were winnable but would take me over a week just to do one. It got dull and repetitive chasing all the AI heroes around the map. I hope 3 has a difficulty setting.

Edit: Just downloaded the homm3 hd patch/wrapper and it is amazing. The game looks really good. 1920-1080 made everything a little to small so I got a very close to 16:9 ratio at 1360-768 and it looks great. Sharp but not too small. So far I have only launched the tutorial but I'm excited to dive in tonight. Again I just hope the campagins are toned down from homm2. Just a tad too hard imo.