Well Zulu you are presistant in your feelings, I'll give you that. Let's take this around the dance floor once more shall we?
I can appreciate that being exposed to danger makes you want to protect your own person, at all costs. However, that doesn't mean that experiencing war is the only allowed qualification to comment on war. I'm sure not all soldiers think the way you do, but if they did, and war decisions were left to them, every war would be needlessly bloody.
Last time I checked it was war and there was no way to avoid bloodshed, sad but true. My point is that your views don't mean much to me in many regards because your not going on first hand information, and that means your being spoon fed without having seen things on the ground with your own eyes. I really don't think you, having seen the war over the net and on tv can compair to my experances, having been in the war.
They have the RIGHT to resist foreign occupation!
Your right I guess, but the facts that you love so much show there not resisting the Coalition, but there own citizens. Many of these IDE's kill iraqi's by the dozzen, yet you and many on this board ignore that fact completely. For every Coalition Soldier killed there are at least twenty iraqi's dead... if you call that resistance then you obviously have some warped views. I tend to call that downright criminal and barbaric activity. It's the most inefective resistance I've ever seen, even the Viet Cong were more effective than this.
For heaven's sake, it can even be thought of as their duty. The Americans are NOT there for the Iraqis' benefit. If a foreign army invaded my country, I would join the resistance.
So that makes it ok to use car bombs and ide's in packed marketplaces... you call me callous and evil
Americans have an obligation to take care who they shoot at.
Considering you've never been to Iraq nor have you ever served I'll enlighten you as someone who has, take notes. We go out of our way to avoid civilian losses, many times even putting ourselves in harms way to do such. There have been several times my unit has come under fire from places like Mosques, apartment buildings and hospitals. Now if we were as barbaric and evil as you seem to think, just call in some tacair and boom, no more building. We don't do that, regardless of what Al-Jazera tells you. Could we? yes, eazily. Have there been times I wanted to, being the person under said fire? hell yes I wanted to. Did we, no we did not.
Finally, 80% of Fallujah's population did not leave. Half of the insurgents did. Most of the casualties in Fallujah will turn out to be civilians: the US military likes to gloss over this sort of thing - they don't 'do' body counts. But the Iraqis do.
Again, your not there nor have you ever been but I guess you know what your talking about
Most of the civilians did leave, and there are large refugee camps set up outside of the city for them. Now again if we were as callous and evil as you wish we were, we would not bother setting up camps or provide food and medical attention... but I guess in your expertise you diden't think of that. And I hate to break it to you, there are about 1,200 dead insurgents and forigen fighters in falluja right now, I don't think a man shot dead in the street with an rpg or 7.62 soviet made sniper rifle was just heading to the market for some beef and milk
Yes, it is a splendid tactic for killing the enemy without exposing yourself to danger. Doesn't make it right, though.
So the only way to kill an enemy is to put a bullet right between the eyes? please, get some trigger time if your going to start talking about the right and wrong way to fight a war.
Yes it is. It's a weapon, and it causes mass destruction.
No, it's anything but. To your warped and untrained mind it may look that way but a WMD is just that, a weapon of MASS destruction. They take out cities, you know, places were millions of humans live and work... just to go into detail they work for money to be used in exchange for goods and services. A peice of naplam ordinance is not going to destroy a whole city, not even a city block.
100,000 civilians dead in Iraq
Ah yes the study were they diden't bother to get death cirtificates, nor did they bother to find out just how the people died. I hardly call that concrete data and even many on the left find the study to be highly innacurate.
... now let's say it's true, hypathetically to humor the math. It's still less that 1% of the population of 60 million, looks like were doing a decent job at limiting civilian deaths compaired to every other conflict in the worlds history.
Giving the Iraqis handouts when you've just bombed their methods of production is not charity. Do not insult your own intelligence.
Funny because many of the iraqis I talked to never saw a ounce of rice or fresh water from the UN run oil for food program. They were starveing long before we got there my friend, the sanctions could have been lifted if Saddam would of gotten with the program... he never did. He just made deals with the French, Russians and Germans to buy military hardware, bunkers and more palaces. Granted life in iraq was pretty good if you were tight with Saddam and I guess that is fine with you. Now on the Oil for Food program, it's not like this was a small scam... it's the largest scam in human history, it goes to the top of the french goverment and to the top of the UN. Please don't insault your own intelligance, you can be against the war and that is fine, you can be against bush and that is fine but the plight of the avrage iraqi has much to do with Saddam and the UN.
Clearly, I was using the "you" in it's plural sense. America have tortured prisoners in Iraq: that is undeniable.
We have also gone out of our way to feed, cloth and give medical attention to many of the prisoners we have taken, a small fact you just happen to overlook, no suprise really in your blind hatered of the US. Also you let the actions of a few soldiers paint the entire coalition, yet feel that " not all insurgents are bad " well please make up your mind. You can't be all or nothing about the US and give kid gloves to the insurgents.
First of all, let's examine this ludicrous claim that the American airforce is precise.
Ever seen a 500 pound bomb dropped from 2,000 feet go through a 2x3 window? wait thats right, you have no military experance to make any of these judgements.
According to a study that is shady, and lacks many basics like death cirtificates. Well here is a fact, about close to 300,000 found in mass graves... and no, as much as you may wish, we did not put them there.
Anyone of 'military age' (which the the US defined as 15-60) were shot on sight.
Wron wrong wrong... but since you spent time in the combat zone I'm sure your up to date on all the facts
There were many times in combat I could have shot at someone fitting that description, unarmed and with a clear shot and I did not. Now if they had a weapon, were provideing aid to the enemy or were a CLEAR AND PRESENT danger to me or my fellow Marines, I would have without hesitation.
The ambulences that were trying to get through in Fallujah were coming from American lines.
And being hijacked by insurgents and used to spring ambushes, but no... the insurgents would never do such a thing!
The ambulence made every effort to show that they were not Iraqis: the put British, American and white flags on the vehicles, they shouted out to the Americans in English (and in English, French, American, etc. accents). The Americans could use binculars to look in the window and see that they were white. But they still shot them.
They were not shot at until they presented a clear and present danger, regardless of what islam online or al jazera says. I mean if we were shooting at them off the bat why bother to even let them into the city? makes no sense in any type of military theroy, neither tactical nor stratigic, sorry. Use your head, your a smart guy.
You're not answering my point. Anything that Europe has done in decades and centuries past is no green light for Americans do what they like. Nor does it revoke our right to criticise.
Just because you diden't like the comparison dosen't mean I diden't answer it, sorry.
It also sums up the Americans, you fool.
HEY! Be nice, theres no reason to get nasty just because I don't feel the same way you do. You loose when you resort to name calling, your a smart guy, keep it clean.
I absolutely agree: "blessed are the peacemakers". You might think that war is a route to peace, but that's an oxymoron in itself. You make war, I make peace.
Absit invidia, Ab asino lanam... Si vis pacem, para bellum
