ChaosArbiter
King
But they're not available with Bronze Working, and Mechanized Infantry are far superior to all three.
Hoplite -VS- Numidian Mercenary
- Thread starter Ranger99
- Start date
ChaosArbiter
King
F-15's are better than both.
In spite of playing America often, I can't honestly say I've ever built an F-15. I've tried bombing runs with jets on occassions and I have NEVER hit anything. They are good for knocking down bombers, though. But they are usually way to late to have any real meaning.
Not that I build many hoplites or NM's either.
You forgot your smilie.
I know you're not serious.I'll take the Hoplite, easily. It's cheaper and if I'm going to attack I'll use Swords. The extra 10 shields for Numidians is a killer. Same cost as a Sword, which is better and the AI respects it more. Only advantage for Numidian over Sword is early availability and better upgrade path.
You forgot your smilie.
Ah, that was sarcasm. I thought someone was finally going to defend the F-15. Well, as long as we don't start making fun of coastal fortresses I won't take this any further.
ChaosArbiter
King
Actually, it wasn't sarcasm - I honestly consider the F-15 better than the Numidian Mercenary or the Hoplite. For starters, with Air Superiority Missions you can actually attack enemy units that aren't even attacking the square they're in (a proactive defense). It is a significant improvement over its base unit for the same cost, and its base unit is better than the Spearman. You can defend your cities/units and attack the enemy's infrastructure, and since the Fighters have range, they are able to attack tiles more quickly than Spearmen.
Sorry I misinterpreted you. F-15 is nice if the game gets to that point. Most people seldom get to the point the F-15 does anything. Around the start of the Modern age is when I finish off the AI's I didn't kill yet. I agree regarding the Numidian - the 50% extra on the cost of a unit I normally don't build isn't a great incentive. I accept the F-15 as probably better than the Numidian - I can see rare situations where it would be useful, unlike the Numidian.
I do like the Hoplite, however. Spears usually aren't a good build but I do like having a heavy-duty unit like that for a cheap price. It does have a problem with a very early GA if you are attacked early.
I think you're a better player than I am, but I also think your opinion on the F-15 will be in the minority.
I don't think you can actually get away with comparing the F-15 against the hoplite or the NM. The number of techs that separate them explains the expanded versitality. I'd rather have hoplites or NM for the entire game than wait for F-15s. Except at higher difficulties, bombers are rarely an issue that a normal jet can't handle. Why do you need a UU to do it?
Given a choice between the three, I would take the Hoplite. I could see a limited use for them - accompanying a stack of swords, I suppose and they are a pretty good deterent against early attacks/border defense.
Given a choice between the three, I would take the Hoplite. I could see a limited use for them - accompanying a stack of swords, I suppose and they are a pretty good deterent against early attacks/border defense.
ChaosArbiter
King
You're flattering me.Essentially, my reasoning for considering the F-15 to be better than both is that it's a good replacement for similar units (it replaces the Jet Fighter, is slightly less effective than the Bomber at bombing but is capable of more, and the Stealth Bomber is significantly more expensive for a relatively marginal increase), while the job that the Hoplites and Numidian Mercenary do is one that can be nearly made obsolete by a unit that isn't even a UU (the Swordsman).
Now, I consider the Hoplite almost infinitely more useful a unit than the F-15 - like you said, the F-15 comes at a time when most games are ending or in the bag, while the Hoplite is a unit that is immediately useful, particularly if you don't have Iron. In any given game, I would rather have the Hoplites than the F-15, but I do consider the F-15 to be the better in comparison.
Strange, I always thought you were an emperor player, and I believe Chaos is a monarch player.
Verarde
Pondering Wearing A Hat
Hoplites.
Hoplites are generally better but there is an advantage for Numidian and it manifests when switcing government and unit support should be considered. In late ancient there should be enough production to construct Numidians and if Iron is unavailable those are the best weapon of offence (with catapults) available.
Let me get this straight if I am half Greek and half American I should build one small city protected by hoplites and F15’s also with a costal fortress so that no one will mess with me? Or would I be better off with a Numidian Merc?
ChaosArbiter
King
As a half-Greek/half-American you wouldn't get Hoplites *or* F-15's (let alone Numidians), so your cunning plan would require some sort of tactical geni-
I think the key to success is that coastal fortress. Forget the rest. With enough coastal fortresses, the AI will meekly find someplace to die all on their own.
The only thing disappointing in the entire game, IMO, is that you can only build one per city. I guess the game designers had game balance in mind when they made that decision. Unlike armies, where you need a hundred to make any differnce in the game, coastal fortresses are game winners. I actually think they should classified as a small wonder.
The only thing disappointing in the entire game, IMO, is that you can only build one per city. I guess the game designers had game balance in mind when they made that decision. Unlike armies, where you need a hundred to make any differnce in the game, coastal fortresses are game winners. I actually think they should classified as a small wonder.
