Bartleby
Remembers laughter
Looks like DrMadd has been away for a while.
Hoplite -VS- Numidian Mercenary
- Thread starter Ranger99
- Start date
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
Seriously, 5 year bump?
Anyway, hops are better.
No way. I've seen Numidian mercs hold their own against everything from Samurai to Legionaries, to chariots and War Elephants. The One downside is the inability to upgrade to pikes.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
A lots been going on.New Baby , broken hand, etc.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
But then again, my tactics almost always cause my cities to grow at a near-cancerous rate, so I get more out of my cities.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
Why would you need to upgrade to an inferior unit?
There is that.. Blonde moment. I was thinking of Musketmen, which they DO upgrade to.
Hasdrubal Barca
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1,441
NumMercs in Archer and Catapult Stak, defense gets 2 bombards on an attacker, then pillage squares to force attack, and attack wounded units with merc, leaving archer to free bombard defensively always, if enemy unit is yellow bar, then use cataputl to bombarb it to red health and kill with num merc., always works, and in Carthaginians mined cities ins´t that costly to build since only 2 workers can road and mine an entire city radius i a couple turns.
Seafaring allows for a 4 movement Carthage Galley, better yet, make some curraghs early, upgrade them to galleys and voila, you own pillaging viking force is ready to rain havoc on enemy lands, with 4 units.
Seafaring allows for a 4 movement Carthage Galley, better yet, make some curraghs early, upgrade them to galleys and voila, you own pillaging viking force is ready to rain havoc on enemy lands, with 4 units.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
I prefer this tactic.. Move up to an enemy city or unit, bombard. Allow them to attack or retreat. If they attack, the bombard wears them down, they are yellow or red lined. Then attack with mercs.
If they don't attack, attack them once they are redlined or yellow lined via catapults. And if they retreat, move all forces into that spot and begin again. I like a passive offense. Madd's axiom number one: There's no point in attacking an enemy if you can let them gut themselves on your defenses.
ChaosArbiter
King
Samurai have 4 Attack, Legions have 3, Chariots have 1, Elephants have 4. Hoplites can hold their own just as well as Numidian Mercenaries can, the only difference is if you want to *attack* with them, in which case the Merc only has a real advantage in one case, as the Chariot's Defense is also 1. Elephants have 3 Defense (and an extra HP), Samurai and Legions have 4 and 3, respectively.
If you do want to Attack, Mercs cost 30 Shields, a Hoplite and an Archer cost 40. Two Numidians cost 60 Shields, two Hoplites and two Archers cost 80. If you're running around with a bunch of singles, Numidians are slightly better, but in stacks they're not as efficient.
Hasdrubal Barca said:
Catapults only have 1 RoF, and Attackers are only subject to 1 Bombardment from units with Defensive Bombardment, so you don't get two Bombards on an Attacker.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
Ah, but I don't have to upgrade mercs until the rise of gunpowder.. Can the hoplite boast that? In the long run, the Merc has defense, counterattack, and doesn't have to be upgrades till muskets.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
Um, a hoplite has the same stat's as a pike, and I believe the price of a spearman, so yes it can boast that.
Ah, but a Numerc is superior to a pikeman.
ChaosArbiter
King
Only if you want to attack. Unfortunately, we seem to have a fundamental difference in point of view - those of use who view the Hoplite as superior generally feel that the extra Attack on a Defender unit is about as useful as boobs on a bull. We would never use a Defender for attacking, so the Numidians are Overpriced Defenders and Inferior Attackers (Swords have better Attack, Horses can retreat).
Frankly, considering that (especially in mid-level and lower games) it's possible to go without building Spears at all due to the AIs depreciation of them when it comes to Military Strength, the Numidians are a bit of a ripoff.
I usually only build a handful of defensive units and a multitude of offensive units, so a defensive UU is of little value to me, unless I am missing a key resource, like iron for pikes. Then, I would rather have the Hopilite because he is cheaper, and I would never attack with him anyway, if I needed him, I would just attack with Longbows and Trebs. The only defensive unit I can see attacking with is Infantry, and then only if I have no tanks or cavalry.
DrMadd
Maker of Monsters
I tend to tailor-make my quads.. Usually...
2 Numercs
1 archers
2 catapult- That's a garrison force
add a cavalry/tank/knight/horseman to that and you have an attacking arm
ChaosArbiter
King
Or Guerillas. Granted, Guerillas are next-to-useless, but they upgrade from Longbows and MedInf, so you may have a bunch lying around. They have the same Attack as Infantry, so why waste a Defender when you have something else that attacks just as well?
I used Guerrillas once in an old Chieftain game when I needed Rubber and the nearest source was on the other side of my neighbors empire, on a peninsula. I landed a force of Guerrilas, a settler, and a couple workers on the peninsula, and made main attack on his core (which bordered me) with Cavs and Riflemen.
beastie978
Chieftain
The Numidian is overpriced, the Hoplite's the easy choice.
del62
Deity
I am going against the grtain here, in my only (to date) Deity win (culture 20k) the the Numidian got me out of a very sticky situation.
If you are are a smallish republic with unit support to be concerned about the Numidian represents great value.
If you are are a smallish republic with unit support to be concerned about the Numidian represents great value.
