Horsemen of the appocalypse SUCK!!!
- Thread starter Ekolite
- Start date
loki1232
Loki
I agree with this. I'd say several things to help--
1. Start each horseman and the avatar with some free promotions:
Combat I-3, Stigmata, Fear, March, Demon, Prophecy mark.
2. There lots of minor demons spawning as well.
3. Increase their base strength.
1. Start each horseman and the avatar with some free promotions:
Combat I-3, Stigmata, Fear, March, Demon, Prophecy mark.
2. There lots of minor demons spawning as well.
3. Increase their base strength.
Bad Player
Deity
I agree too.
Also stop having the horsemen defend cities they conquer - horsemen don't get defensive bonuses, do they? Assuming they don't then could they be programmed to just heal a bit and go and attack another city.
Another unit that is too weak is the Balor? that spawns sometimes after building the infernal grimoire. He is just laughable at that stage of the game.
Also stop having the horsemen defend cities they conquer - horsemen don't get defensive bonuses, do they? Assuming they don't then could they be programmed to just heal a bit and go and attack another city.
Another unit that is too weak is the Balor? that spawns sometimes after building the infernal grimoire. He is just laughable at that stage of the game.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Personally I think that the horsemen should be much stronger, faster, and start with blitz (and probably more promotions as well). They should be practically invincible, but eventually pass away on their own. I think that giving them duration of something 6 or 13 might be nice.
The Balor is supposed to be the infernal berserker as well as an Entropy III Summon and a penalty for the infernal grimorie. It doesn't seem right that a Balor is the weakest berserker on offense and strongest of defense (all others have split offense/defence strength, they don't). I modded this unit to have 4 offensive/ 0 defensive strength + 2 unholy strength +1 fire affinity + 2 entropy affinity. That makes Hyborem's Balors start at close to a normal berserker's strength, but easily become much stronger. Since The Barbarian State counts the mana of all players for its units' affinity, the Infernal Grimorie can be quite risky to build (I also made it provide 1 entropy and 1 mind mana, to make it more valuable)
The Balor is supposed to be the infernal berserker as well as an Entropy III Summon and a penalty for the infernal grimorie. It doesn't seem right that a Balor is the weakest berserker on offense and strongest of defense (all others have split offense/defence strength, they don't). I modded this unit to have 4 offensive/ 0 defensive strength + 2 unholy strength +1 fire affinity + 2 entropy affinity. That makes Hyborem's Balors start at close to a normal berserker's strength, but easily become much stronger. Since The Barbarian State counts the mana of all players for its units' affinity, the Infernal Grimorie can be quite risky to build (I also made it provide 1 entropy and 1 mind mana, to make it more valuable)
Bad Player
Deity
I like the idea of affinity for the infernal grimoire's balor MagisterCultuum.
loki1232
Loki
One thing is to have horsemen automatically raze all cities they take--then they won't bother defending them,
Bad Player
Deity
And it'd be more dramatic!
Kael
Deity
Yeah I noticed this in the latest version. Im not sure why it happened like that. I boosted the Balor too so its more comparable to berserkers.
Another thing to do is not have them be barbarians for purposes of combat bonii based on difficulty level. They are really hosed at diety level with the massive advantage the ai have against them, and equally hosed against a player at very low difficulties.
onedreamer
Dragon
The real problem is not the strength of the avatars but the AI. I have observed them with a barbarian civ (Hyborem) and they get killed because they are controlled by an idiotic AI. Probably due to the fact that they are barbarian and they have no real goal, they will almost never plan to attack a city and only think to pillage and rarely kill some undefended and weak unit, still taking damage without wanting to heal. In the end am average stack will easily dispose of them. What could help is giving them a minor escort and improving the AI. Maybe give them a goal to achieve...
part of the problem your seeing is not with the horsemen at all , but with the AC. waht turn are you seeing them in? by the way everyone is talking i would assume monarch and lower dificulty and they show up in what would be post 250 in a quick game. my experience with the 4 horsemen is that they are virtually unstopable ( but then again i try and put them into the field early and never one at a time ).
it is EXTREMELY easy when playing the clan to pop the 4 horsemen early. and when all 4 spawn in the span of 4-5 turns it can be extremely painful.
PLEASE playtest this more before altering them too heavily.
a better way to handle them imho (as a suggestion) would be to link thier strenght and starting xp/promos with the turn that they appear.
it is EXTREMELY easy when playing the clan to pop the 4 horsemen early. and when all 4 spawn in the span of 4-5 turns it can be extremely painful.
PLEASE playtest this more before altering them too heavily.
a better way to handle them imho (as a suggestion) would be to link thier strenght and starting xp/promos with the turn that they appear.
If you were playing the good guy instead of AV, or the ai actually did something about the counter, would you still see them coming early enough to not be easy kills to deity ai?
I've never seen the horsemen before I had national units unless I were the one doing the razing, and even then I usually have them first anyway because I'm not specifically trying to raise it. No single unit is ever hard to kill with attack spells and summons in the mix.
I've never seen the horsemen before I had national units unless I were the one doing the razing, and even then I usually have them first anyway because I'm not specifically trying to raise it. No single unit is ever hard to kill with attack spells and summons in the mix.
onedreamer
Dragon
Apocalypse Knights being too strong would require fixing as much as them being too weak, don't you think ?
Any fix that will JUST alter their strength, promotion, xp won't help much. They already have high strength (promotions would help more of course), if they fail in doing anything bad (or good, depending on the points of view
) it's a strategic problem, ie of the AI that manouvers them. You make them stronger, they will kill a few units more and last perhaps 4-5 turns instead of 2-3.
