How 2k treats Mac users...

[brambrosh]

Firstly, I want to introduce myself. I am from Norway and I've been playing civilization since Civ 3. But in 2007 I bought a Mac, and I decided to purchase Civ 4 on Mac. And it truly was enjoyable, the game was great and everything worked for mac too. Lots of scenarios, maps online and mods you could download from civfanatics. The Civ 5 came, and I bought it for Mac. It was a surprise to see that the state it was in. No mods at all, ONE scenario (which sucks), no world builder and what; 7 online maps which all pretty much suck (except for pangea, continents and archipeliago). And no earth map what so ever.
And I quickly found out that no mods will be aviable for mac, and no world builder. So I'm stuck with predesigned maps and no possibility to get anything new. At least in Civ 4 I could download "mods" for mac, install them and play them as a custom map. Now I can't! I would say Civ 5 is two steps backwards. And please, PC-lovers, don't throw your arrogant here please, I'm tired of immature kids who are too busy complaining about mac. "If you wanted to play games, why did you buy a mac? OMFG, PC r teh best!" I bought a mac because i love mac and do other stuff than gaming, but some games I love like Civ 5, and I just gotta have em. I edit movies and make music, but sometimes i relax with some civ.

My point is, civ 5 have so few abilities. It only has single player with 10 maps and 1 scenario, and multiplayer with 7 maps or so. At least civ 4 had at least a dozen scenarios, which I could play online also, and map builder. Why do you treat mac users like ? Im tired of getting 1/4 of the game. Why do you even sell it to mac when Im limited to the standard and the stuff you sell, which includes like 3 maps ffs. Civ 4 had: worldbuilder, many multiplayer maps, scenarios, mods. Civ 5 has: less predesigned maps then civ 4 and... no thats it. Please give me some serious responses, civ 5 for mac is a joke, and I would like some answers. At least, maybeee, give me the opportunity to design my own earth map, or give me something to make the game last for more than 2 weeks. I've spent countless hours on civ 4 on mac, but civ 5 is like a cutinhalf version of civ 4, just with better graphics. I know making mods on mac is too much to handle for 2k, but please, map builder, some scenarios you dont have to buy and being able to play custom maps. thats not too much to ask. Me and 3 friends bought civ 5, but after a month of civ 5, we switched back to civ 4, with its many scenarios and maps, and custom maps from civfanatics. btw, sorry for my spelling errors, i just threw this quickly together at school and didnt really mind the typing.

Civ 5 for mac is an uncomplete game, and to make people pay full price for that is ridicolous....

 

[Becomedeath]

I'm afraid the answer is simply the one you wanted to avoid.

There are more PC users in the world and presumably in the marketplace and as such the cost of developing Mac equivilent software is offset by ensuring that the PC versions are up to scratch before converting.

Mac has never been a viable alternative and that's built into it's marketing. It's exclusivity is it's downfall as well as it's main charm.

However, updates for Civ have always eventually filtered through to Mac, so there is no need to presume that they won't. Regrettably, if you wanted to have the front line on new developments in virtually any other software other than iOS...PC really was the way to go...

I know it's not what you wanted, but sympathy is, has been and (for the foreseeable future) always will be low on this subject.

(PS - There is a Mac forum - see, exclusivity again!)

Not trying to wind you up honestly, but this isn't a new thing and something you should be used to by now in all fairness.

 

[anandus]

Are you complaining about Civ5 or about a lack of support that Civ 5 has for the Mac?

About the latter bit: Yes, the support could be better, patches are behind a few months, but support with Civ 5 for the Mac is better than support was for Civ 4 for the Mac, which was released about a year later than the PC-version! (but you probably didn't notice because you bought it afterwards).
It's not as much up to date as the the PC-version, but it's almost there.

Also, don't forget that Mac isn't as much a gaming platform as the PC is, both in framework as in market (and especially that's what it's all about eventually).
(And you can call me a kid or arrogant, but that's just reality and that's nobody's fault )
Therefore companies invest less in the Mac-versions, then in PC-versions. It's more of an afterthought and a gesture towards the community.

Be glad that the Mac is growing as a gaming platform and that more and more games are becoming available. Compared to, say, five years ago a small miracle has happened on that front

A workaround, one you don't want to hear probably, is to install Bootcamp and Windows (if you have a Windows license).
Your Civ5-licence will work both on the Mac and Windows. That way you can enjoy the other bits as well.

And if it's about Civ 5 itself not being what you expected (if I read between the lines?), there's a topic about it here.

 

[dojoboy]

I play Civ on a Mac, have for years. Aside from some items, like the use of certain software by Firaxis that made modding Civ4 excruciating, Civ5 appears to be, today, on par with the PC version. It was just recently patched, via Aspyr, to the PC equivalent. And, all indications are the PC mods run on the Mac. I just downloaded one last night for my Mac version.

There is, and always will be, a delay in porting the game over to the Mac. This isn't too frustrating with the release of the game, but it is in regards to the updates.

This really isn't 2K's (and Firaxis') issue to deal with. Sure it would be great if they were like Blizzard, simultaneous Windows and OSX builds, but they're not.

If there are items you want for the Mac version of Civ5, your time is better served contacting Aspyr Media. They are the publishers for the Mac version. They decide where to invest their time in regard to game updates, etc.

For now we're good to go, until the next Windows patch.

NOTE: The Mac App Store version (Campaign Edition) is still waiting on the recent patch, but it's coming. If you bought it anywhere else, the patch (update) has been released.

 

[Skwink]

I'm afraid the answer is simply the one you wanted to avoid.

There are more PC users in the world and presumably in the marketplace and as such the cost of developing Mac equivilent software is offset by ensuring that the PC versions are up to scratch before converting.

Mac has never been a viable alternative and that's built into it's marketing. It's exclusivity is it's downfall as well as it's main charm.

However, updates for Civ have always eventually filtered through to Mac, so there is no need to presume that they won't. Regrettably, if you wanted to have the front line on new developments in virtually any other software other than iOS...PC really was the way to go...

I know it's not what you wanted, but sympathy is, has been and (for the foreseeable future) always will be low on this subject.

(PS - There is a Mac forum - see, exclusivity again!)

Not trying to wind you up honestly, but this isn't a new thing and something you should be used to by now in all fairness.

Then why did Valve release all their games fro Mac? Why did EA release a both PC and Mac CD when they released Sims 3?

 

[dojoboy]

Then why did Valve release all their games fro Mac? Why did EA release a both PC and Mac CD when they released Sims 3?

Agreed. The Mac is seeing a refresh so to speak in the PC market. A big reason has been the success of iDevice gaming. And, newer Mac models are seeing the specs for it.

 

[anandus]

Then why did Valve release all their games fro Mac? Why did EA release a both PC and Mac CD when they released Sims 3?

Because it is a growing market, but still not comparable. Games being co-released is still more the exception than the rule.
It's changing, it just takes a while.

Although it's highly likely that in th end there probably still will be relatively more gamers on PC than on Mac and therefore the PC, in the case of games, will stay the number one priority for game makers.

 

[Becomedeath]

Then why did Valve release all their games fro Mac? Why did EA release a both PC and Mac CD when they released Sims 3?

I don't recall saying that games didn't exist on Mac. I do recall however saying that they were rarely granted the same level of after-sales care as PC users however with regard to updates, patches etc.

Moreover, I don't work for any of these companies so how the hell should I know?

Although it's highly likely that in th end there probably still will be relatively more gamers on PC than on Mac and therefore the PC, in the case of games, will stay the number one priority for game makers.

This will always be true unless the globe decides enmasse to stop making PC components.

 

[dojoboy]

Essentially, it is the niche gamer who sees greater frustration gaming on a Mac. Many of the AAA titles make it over, and there are some great indie companies who code for the Mac. Some Mac gaming publishers have even struck gold with some titles. Virtual Programming, for instance, has done a wonderful job with the grand strategy games from Paradox Interactive. Love those games.

 

[Skwink]

I don't recall saying that games didn't exist on Mac. I do recall however saying that they were rarely granted the same level of after-sales care as PC users however with regard to updates, patches etc.

Well I'm using a Mac for gaming and I get all the patches released for TF2 the same second my friends do. Same for most of my other games, including one of the most the third iteration of one of the biggest game franchises ever, Sims.

 

[Becomedeath]

Well I'm using a Mac for gaming and I get all the patches released for TF2 the same second my friends do. Same for most of my other games, including one of the most the third iteration of one of the biggest game franchises ever, Sims.

Again, I said "rarely", not "never". Stop being so binary. There is no assualt going on. But it is a fact that the platform is seen by MANY game houses as a secondary concern and an unreliable customer base which causes a chicken and egg situation for them to address.

 

[fmlizard2]

I'm a Mac player. I don't get into mods and scenarios and all that, and I have no Civ 4 frame of reference to compare to. That said, the delay in the last Mac patch was troubling - about 2 months for a major balancing patch. From what I know, the delay was caused by:

• A lack of communication between 2K/Firaxis and Aspyr (2K/Firaxis basically dumped the patch on them in the same way they did the general public, providing no lead time)
• One of the two parties (don't know who, probably Aspyr, though 2K/Firaxis may have dictated) deciding to spend 90% of the patch development and test time on things like cross-platform multiplayer that not many people use, delaying the more-or-less simple XML updates that would have balanced the Mac version lickety-split.

I agree, us Mac users get short shrift. I also understand the economics of it all...why spend the same amount of dev resources c5gold on 5-10% of the user base that 90% gets?

The real answer to the Mac issue is probably not what any of us Mac fans want to hear - get a boot camp instance of Windows and accept that you sometimes will have to use it. When you buy a Mac, you are getting a lot of good things. My 3 year old iMac runs CiV like a champ, will full detail on everything. But you also knew that you were signing up for some compatibility issues when you did it, especially in terms of gaming.

 

[anandus]

This will always be true unless the globe decides enmasse to stop making PC components.

That doesn't matter, internally Macs and PCs are identical.
It's only the Operating System that differs.

Windows runs fine on a Mac and OSX runs fine on a PC.

 

[forty2j]

As a Mac user, I find it laughable that this was posted 5 days after the Mac version reached feature parity with the Windows version and cross-platform multiplayer was enabled.

(Well, if you went App Store instead of Retail Box or Steam, then your patch is still waiting for approval by Apple, and you will never have online multiplayer.)

There's a Mac section of these forums. In there are instructions for enabling mods. Every mod created for PC so far works on Mac - you just need to take an extra step to get them installed. No, you won't get world builder or (if/when it comes to windows) DLL-based mods, but that is a very small deal from where I'm sitting. Maps created by others - and by you if you choose to Bootcamp/Parallels your way into Windows - work just fine. All of the official DLC released so far works just fine. (Civ V has 1 scenario to start, regardless of where it comes from.)

On the broader topic - it's unfortunate that 2K's model doesn't allow simulatneous patches to both systems. Other companies have started doing this. There's probably a market share threshold 2K's looking for before they do this - and I'm betting it's higher than the 6.5% Apple just posted. Blizzard and Valve are more enlightened, but eventually, the industry will get there...

 

[bossconian]

I'm outraged and disgusted by the post issued by brambrosh. How can he dare to complain about civ V. Everybody knows that it is still in beta stages and may never be released as a fully functional product. Hence even harder it is for me to understand why people complain about 2k and CIV V. Don't they understand that in current world you have to behave as a brainless fan/enthusiast taking every single cr.p you are given for any money they want ? You shouldn't have your own opinion and just rely on game rates provided by all the biggest portals, papers and shops - it was bestselling game for many weeks with rates of 98% and chosen by 2k as the best strategic game of the year 2010. I still wonder why, whilst you install the game and agree to the EULA you're not obliged to sign in / up to the facebook and become a fan of the game first (sorry - i'm not sure what's that called - not using fb).
Don't these all complainers understand that developing process take decades these days ? -vide duke nukem 4ever / diablo 3 etc. CIV V is so advanced - e.g. state of art AI - and problems (for example pyramids being build in the middle of the sea) so hard to overcome that it's very rude to mention these flaws. You should be so greatful you can download additional civ for only $9.99 and have directx 9/10/11/12 animated leader talking to you in his native language saying that you will be punished if you don't accept his 10 cities given to you for stopping the war (btw - answer for this ultimatum is not as obvious as it may seem to be). How amazing is that?

And a final word. Shouldn't that topic be deleted as this forum doesn't accept negative opinions on the one and only CIV V and its developer ?

Proud to own CIV V beta since 30.09.2010 - 7 hours played so far !

Moderator Action: There's no need to troll around and derail this thread.

Responses to this post will also be considered trolling.

 

[Horizons]

I am sorry to hear that you have a Macintosh. I pray that one day you will get a proper computer.

Moderator Action: No need to poke fun at Mac users.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Nebular]

The problem is with Aspyre themselves, not 2K, as they're the ones handling the Mac development (or perhaps 2K not telling them what has been changed until the PC patch is release - I don't know the situation). I haven't touched a Mac since grade school, but couldn't you just use BootCamp to run a virtual instance of Windows and play the PC build of Civ on that? I've heard of a number of Mac users doing this with much success. No having to wait for Aspyre to finally get things done (the most recent patch took them something like 6 or 7 weeks), plus you can use all of the mods. All of the PC benefits while still using your Mac.

 

[forty2j]

The problem is with Aspyre themselves, not 2K, as they're the ones handling the Mac development (or perhaps 2K not telling them what has been changed until the PC patch is release

This is exactly the situation - Aspyr learns about the content of a patch the day PC users are downloading it.

 

[Camikaze]

I play Civ5 using Bootcamp on my Mac, and this is pretty much why. I didn't want to be playing a game that's not up to date where I can't use mods. It is a shame, but I guess I kinda knew it'd be the case going into buying a Mac.

 

[Skwink]

Again, I said "rarely", not "never". Stop being so binary. There is no assualt going on. But it is a fact that the platform is seen by MANY game houses as a secondary concern and an unreliable customer base which causes a chicken and egg situation for them to address.

I was merely giving some examples of highly popular games and game makers that acknowledge the Mac user base.