How about localized versions of Civ5? it seems nobody care about

[CoffeeMug]

How about localized versions of Civ5? it seemes nobody seem to care about


Okay this is more like a question about if Civ will be translated into more languages than expected, and i am not talking about the language that units or leaders will use while diplomacy or in game.

Let me share a story with all of you...

In the past (2003) i used to had interesting and awesome experiences while playing online CIV III PTW with people from China, Japan and even Korea through GamesSpy Arcade. (It was the only reasonable way to do it back then, i think).

I must acknowledge i found the strategy these people used in CIV was some particular (bit difficult to explain it with words), but certainly not the average or the kind you expect to find in a 1 to 1 /or team matches on a usual game through CIV's buit-in matchmaking system.

However it became difficult for me to keep playing with people from these countries as new patches came out, since Infogrames (back then) and Firaxis, seemed to release updates and patches on their websites for English versions only, and occasionally these were ported on Spanish, French, among other european languages as well, on their regional sites.

I do suspect that change on their policy was because of the pressure they got, after much complaining from european gamers due to lousy support they had from Infogrames and eventually Atari's regional offices. Some of such complains can be seen here:

It must be noted this information dates back from 2002/2003:

Attributed to Infogrames Spain

• Complains about lousy translation http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59853&page=3 via Apolyton
  
• Excesive delay on releasing patches and conflicts with hardware and antivirus
  http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1268461 also via Apolyton (spanish language)
  http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=77949
  
• Lousy and dubious tech support from Infogrames Spain related to new patches
  http://www.galciv4.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56063&page=3
  http://www.meristation.com/v3/des_analisis.php?id=3676&idj=3267&pic=GEN Via (Meristation)

Since very few information was released upon were to obtain patches for different languages editions of CIVILIZATION i really became very upset on how to give instructions to people who asked me where to find updates for their current CIV. (Of course this was much before added a built-in update system, because in PTW and C3C most updates needed to be done manually).

I remember not so long ago it used to be a chinese language site some like CIVFANATICS called KUANKUAN, and they seemed to be very aware and concerned of their community to keep them with up-to-date information regarding CIVILIZATION. Unfortunately, Kuankuan has been closed as of 2010.

You can still, see how their website looked like in 2003, it was very impresive (at the time it was released/ with their early 2000s graphics) now defunct.
http://web.archive.org/web/20030219205202/http://civ.kuankuan.com/ (via Wayback machine).

The only successor to that site i came across was CIVCLUB which actually it is a forum much like CIVFANATICS in their beginnings (http://www.civclub.net/bbs/forumdisplay.php?fid=56).

Although i am not addressing here, that there is some kind of discrimination or bias towards american or european gamers, but i believe the designers of this game maybe haven't realized how famous and addictive CIVILIZATION had become beyond Europe and the how it amassed lots of loyal fans in Asian gaming community.

As of today, with really very few information realeased regarding regional versions of CIV5, it does arises the question.

Is it FIRAXIS working with Take Two Interactive's regional offices to give people in other parts of the world (particulary in Asia) to give them a decent translated or localized version of CIV5?.

This issue has been softened since CIV IV, as it was released in more languages other than latin-based alphabet, such as Cyrilic (Russian).

But how about CIV5?, as of today (with little info available) it seems that it will be only on English. How about French, Italian, Spanish, German?.

Well the bottom line here is ....

i expect to see in Civilization V, Firaxis consider to continue the world integration language trend started in Civilization IV (i presume), which included Hanzi (Chinese) & Japanese (kanji) and Korean (hangeul), which i believe they did on CIV4 by handling translation through CEASIA. [http://www.ceasia.com.cn/reyou.php?op=view&id=12]

Indeed i hope this new version of Civilization franchise to be more integrated with their regional partners, including downloadable content such as patches or additional civilizations, thus making easier for people across the world to find updates for their localized versions into one website or via built in Update capability (added since ).

If anyone is curious about how do their localized CIV III/IV China and Korean versions look like in game screenshots i did uploaded some examples. Cheers

 

[Shurdus]

Wow, that is some very hard to read post with all the bold parts and the italic parts and the underlining, all of which seems to be done randomly... There may be some translations done for civ5. I am sure that on an english board, you will find very little outrage over the game lacking a mandarin chinese or japanese version of the game.

 

[Trias]

Were there any big issues with the localized versions of civ4?

This would surprise to some extent, seeing as most of the game data is set up to be completely independent of the used localisation. (All data relevant to translations of game text etc. is stored in separate XML files.)

 

[EmpireOfCats]

As somebody who is more or less bilingual English-German (and can't spell in either language), I've found that it is just not worth playing the localized versions. The translations are either late, or full of mistakes, and at the very least destroy word-games and jokes. This is not to dump on the translators, who have an impossible task and usually are not given enough time to do a good job. Take, for example, the achievements for Left 4 Dead -- how are you going to translate all of those jokes? And how many people outside of the U.S. understand why the Internet has a picture of Al Gore in Civ IV?

At the risk of sounding snobbish, imperialistic, or both, in the 21. century, you're probably better off just learning English. Yes, the spelling is downright sadistic, but on the long run, you'll be a happier gamer.

 

[The_J]

I have to nearly completly disagree.

I feel well trained in english, and i would not want to play civ4 in english (or FfH2. Thanks god for the translation team ).
I've played other games in english, Vampires 2 and Disciples 2, it was not that hard, the speakers are excellent, the games are excellent.
But: They do not have the same complexity like civ.
In civ you have to think a lot about the game mechanics, especially at the beginning.
If you then are not 100% fit in the language, you'll have problems with reading all the necessary texts, and it will discourage you from playing the game.

And what you also forget: Here, civ5 will probably USK 12 again ( USK = our ESRB).
Kids/Teenagers with this age, 12, 14, 16 play Civ, they are a big target group for games, and they are not trained to read so much english. They would probably not buy it.
In contrast to a shooter, where you don't have to think that much, which you can sometimes even easily play without reading anything.


I even feel sorry for all the people who do not get "their own" translation, like the poor people around here in Poland, the Netherlands and the nordic countries.
It's a shame, that they are not translated in these languages (i understand, that it makes no sense economically seen; okay, that might be not completly true, it could make sense for Poland), it could bring so much fun to many people more.

 

[Trias]

I have to nearly completly disagree.

I feel well trained in english, and i would not want to play civ4 in english (or FfH2. Thanks god for the translation team ).
I've played other games in english, Vampires 2 and Disciples 2, it was not that hard, the speakers are excellent, the games are excellent.
But: They do not have the same complexity like civ.
In civ you have to think a lot about the game mechanics, especially at the beginning.
If you then are not 100% fit in the language, you'll have problems with reading all the necessary texts, and it will discourage you from playing the game.

Most of the actual text in civ is fluff, all the necessary game mechanics are rendered through icons and numbers. Most people, especially children learn by doing. In civ there are maybe like then words that could pose a problem if you don't know what they mean. For those words there exist dictionaries and/or parents.

I've been playing English computer games since long before I learned to speak/read English. This has never been much of an issue for games like civ. I remember trying to play police quest 1, with about zero knowledge of the english language, that was challenging, but still we seemed to manage between contextual guesses and asking our parents.

I even feel sorry for all the people who do not get "their own" translation, like the poor people around here in Poland, the Netherlands and the nordic countries.
It's a shame, that they are not translated in these languages (i understand, that it makes no sense economically seen; okay, that might be not completly true, it could make sense for Poland), it could bring so much fun to many people more.

I don't think this much of a problem for the people here in the Netherlands. At least it wasn't for me or any of my friends. Video games being in English only is a big incentive to start learning English for many children. They generally learn while playing games and watch English television with subtitles.

 

[I tech faster]

Some editors put no effort in the localization of their games but most are very concerned about it, dubbing included. The last french translated PC games I played with (WoW WOTLK, Dragon Age, The Witcher) are really good adaptations and so was Civ 4.

But I'm glad some games never got localized, it's always interesting to learn other languages while playing.

 

[Mercade]

I even feel sorry for all the people who do not get "their own" translation, like the poor people around here in Poland, the Netherlands and the nordic countries.
It's a shame, that they are not translated in these languages (i understand, that it makes no sense economically seen; okay, that might be not completly true, it could make sense for Poland), it could bring so much fun to many people more.

Don't be. My PC will never see any non-English software if I can help it. I wouldn't know where to find the speichern button in Dutch to begin with.

As such, translations should be relatively cheap and simple when the program is properly designed for it. All you need it is the actual translation and a file with all the translated words since the code itself should be language-independant (with the exception of some grammer routines). Needing a 650 MB install for the Dutch language pack on Office 2007 is just some very poor programming. Clearly if a game needs to be repackaged and a patch translated into a separate downloadable an improper model is being used.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Localizations are the responsibility of the Producer, 2K Games in this case, that is why developers(Firaxis) have a deadline to get all the text in the game done well before the game goes "gold" because athe producer has to send the game text out to all it's regional offices to be translated.

CS

 

[CoffeeMug]

Were there any big issues with the localized versions of civ4?

This would surprise to some extent, seeing as most of the game data is set up to be completely independent of the used localisation. (All data relevant to translations of game text etc. is stored in separate XML files.)

Actually this goes far beyond translating the text or some audio files. How about speaking stuff? Maybe we will not have the "speaking counsil" like in Civilization II, but i am aware that this issue goes really far from changing some files in the game kernel.

The whole merchandising including a nicely reproduced game box (in a localized language, whether it is european or asian) and advertisement had to be done.

Most of the actual text in civ is fluff, all the necessary game mechanics are rendered through icons and numbers. Most people, especially children learn by doing. In civ there are maybe like then words that could pose a problem if you don't know what they mean. For those words there exist dictionaries and/or parents.

I've been playing English computer games since long before I learned to speak/read English. This has never been much of an issue for games like civ. I remember trying to play police quest 1, with about zero knowledge of the english language, that was challenging, but still we seemed to manage between contextual guesses and asking our parents.


I don't think this much of a problem for the people here in the Netherlands. At least it wasn't for me or any of my friends. Video games being in English only is a big incentive to start learning English for many children. They generally learn while playing games and watch English television with subtitles.

Some true and some not, speaking on myself, i can say back in the early 1990s almost every software in gaming industry was not localized, and i was about 10 years old at the time, and i found it really hard to understand the game mechanics as i was unfamiliar with English language.

And of course icons among other stuff was really very primitive as DOS engine really limited these issues, but still i dont think so with the advent of directX among other technical improvements that led games to be more interactive it is not enough to easily say -you can learn- only by doing it goes beyond.

I am not underestimating the learning capability everyone has, i take that for granted. But certainly not on the same speed. (Do you know where i am going?).

It can be easy for some players in the western hemisphere to understand at some extend german, french, and so on, because these languages use a Latin based alphabet. But how about asian languages and even russian, it can be very challenging for them to understand the game mechanics, if they are forced to look at an unfamiliar language to them, and certainly looking pictures or animations it doesnt give you much help as being just a hint. But certainly it can drive you nowhere if CiV is your first game and you dont have any idea of what to do. For such reason, translating game manual and so on.

Of course we do live in the 21st century where almost everyone knows english, but it has to be specified on what level of complexity they do.

Considering this game goes to a wide number of audiences (rated +12), i really doubt everyone will understand CiV automatically, specially if the GUI is radically changed from previous versions. And to say you will have a dictionary or a tutor at your hands it is just to pass the ball on other people, certainly this is totally utopic.

How about localized versions of well known OS such as Windows family, or Mac OS X?, i understand it can be a different topic but, certainly there are technical issues when you try to run software which differs from your OS localized language.

I experienced serious glitches while trying to use Korean software which needed the use of aditional IME(see JAMO ime ) packages to be installed on Windows to run properly, not counting the lag i experienced as a result from the procedure.

Still if to run Civ III or Civ IV (US versions) in a machine that operates with Windows Arabic or Windows Japanese, even not too exotic as Windows Spanish, you will find some technical problems or some In-game strange behavior that cant be fixed easily.

Something to think about i believe.

 

[Rusty Edge]

I suspect that some of these decisions are based upon sales figures. If, for example, a significant % of people who played the game in China used pirated copies, it would distort the data.
Firaxis might not think the market was worth the cost of hiring translators.

I'm sure there are mods who would be willing to offer localized versions of their mod, if they had volunteer translators.

I agree that more people should be able to participate in a game of planetary human history, but short of organizing people with the proper skillsets to and motivating them to commit a lot of time to a project, I don't know how it would get done.

Find out from Firaxis what it would take, then start a website and get people to pre-pay orders in language X, hoping that it would reach a critical threshhold?

 

[Akka]

I always chose the original version if I can understand the language.
Civ is, like the overwhelming majority of video games, based on an english version, and I can read english just fine.

The only times where I need localisation are the rare cases when the game is not in a language I can read - typically, japanese games, as I can't understand more than a few very specific words, and can't read a single one. And even in these cases, I want the strict minimum of localisation - NOT dubbing, NEVER dubbing, thanks.

So no, in short, I don't care about localisation

 

[henryMCVII]

Since this is an english website, I may be part of a minority here. Anyway, I really do care about localisations. I'm always buying the localized version, if possible. Playing in my own language is just more pleasurig to me, then beeing *forced* to translate everything.

 

[Akka]

Since this is an english website, I may be part of a minority here. Anyway, I really do care about localisations. I'm always buying the localized version, if possible. Playing in my own language is just more pleasurig to me, then beeing *forced* to translate everything.

Well, in time, using a language make you more fluent in it, and considerably lessen the need of "conscious" translation.
I'm not a native english speaker, but after years of playing video games and reading stuff on Internet, I usually don't have to "think" about what I'm reading to understand.
A translation always lose some meaning, no matter how good it is, and it's often not that good. When you start to be able to read mostly effortlessly, what you lose in "reading foreign language" becomes negligible compared to what you gain in "reading the actual original stuff". Even if you don't get it as a native speaker would, you still have much more of the "initial intent" than when you read something that has been changed through translation.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I always prefer for my games to be in English, if English is their original language. While spoken English is quite hard for me to understand, I am able to read English as easy as my native Russian. Besides, due to different grammar of the two languages, a Russian translation over an English core is often rather awkard.

 

[The_J]

The quality really depends on the translator.
German grammar is also quite different in some cases, but the civ4 translation nearly had no problems (besides power = electricity).

 

[toft]

I even feel sorry for all the people who do not get "their own" translation, like the poor people around here in Poland, the Netherlands and the nordic countries.
It's a shame, that they are not translated in these languages (i understand, that it makes no sense economically seen; okay, that might be not completly true, it could make sense for Poland), it could bring so much fun to many people more.

I feel sorry for all the Germans thats being spoonfed with dubbed movies and games. It is not the language or anything like that, it is simply the quality of the product (movie or game) that hits rock-bottom. Games and movies made in english are best in english - just like "Der Untergang" is best in German, "El laberinto del fauno" is best in Spanish and Akira is best in Japanese.

 

[Tylerryan79]

English is my native language, and to think of all you guys learning it by playing games is amazing, in my mind. I can only understand basic spanish, and Im talking real basic lol, and can in no way imagine learning another language through a game, or a tutor or school for that matter. My hats off to all who have. In my defence, I never really needed to cope in the manner you all had to, which I find regretful. I would love to know more than one language, but my brain cant cope . On topic, I think if a company plans on selling a game in a region that has a large variety of languages present, and they are also present in large numbers, then there should be a well translated version for them as well. Even if i could speak another language, I dont think I would want to play in that language, atleast if I had a choice.

 

[Akka]

English is my native language, and to think of all you guys learning it by playing games is amazing, in my mind. I can only understand basic spanish, and Im talking real basic lol, and can in no way imagine learning another language through a game, or a tutor or school for that matter. My hats off to all who have. In my defence, I never really needed to cope in the manner you all had to, which I find regretful. I would love to know more than one language, but my brain cant cope .

Trust me, when you've got the motivation, it isn't so hard ^^
I was extremely bad at english in school. Really.
The first video games I had were in english, but it was at a time where there was usually very little text, and I could manage to guess what was expected - or just go by trial and error. Funny bonuses when you take up some of these old game later, and you suddendly understand how it really works, or how there is plenty of stuff you never expected to be here

The a bit later I had my first games with some amount of text. Asked my father to help
me understand the weird words on the screen. He wasn't good in english either, though, and I just couldn't constantly disturb him during his work, so it was not a very efficient way to play.

By this time, I had some basic understanding of the language through school - still awful with horrible grades, but at least I had some very basis, like "if it ends in 'ed', it usually means it's in the past" and the like. And years of seeing the same words in the same contexts helped to grasp some vocabulary, albeit not the usual vocabulary in day to day life (I thought for years that "leather" meant "light", because "leather armors" were always opposed to "heavy armors" ).

The turning point was Wing Commander I and a stroke of accidental luck. I bought the game on a saturday. It was, in contradiction with the law that required at least a translated manual, entirely in english. But it had the kind of manual you don't see these day anymore : something "in-universe", with LOTS of stories and text and immersive content. All this hardly understandable. I was furious of course, and I planned to return it to the store. But then it was saturday afternoon, the store was closed, and it wouldn't open before monday.
And I was pretty bored, and the manual looked really awesome, and I wanted to know what was written in it.
So well... I got a dictionary, and used lots and lots of guesswork and literal translation. And got hooked to the game. And finally didn't returned it.
As there was lots of dialogue (for the time) in it, I had to continue with the dictionary-in-hand routine.

And so it came to this : when you're really motivated, things aren't that hard. It helped me remember lots of vocabulary, and learn lots of expression. After that, it was only a matter of re-doing the same with every other games. In time, I started to need the dictionary less and less. Then discovered Internet, and got the thing on steroid, with hundred of pages to read, and dozens of people to talk with.
Nowaday, I hardly need a dictionary ever, and usually if I don't know the word, I can't find it in the book anyway - thanks for online knowledge though

Notice, though : english is an extremely easy language to understand. As grating it is to have something other than your native tongue being used as international standard (if only because of jingoism ), we were lucky to end up with english rather than some obscure/complex other language. The grammar is exceedingly simple, vocabulary is straightforward and intuitive - especially if you know a germanic or latin language already - and there is few exception. The only tricky part is that it's completely bogus and nonsensical to pronounce, but that's not a problem when you're reading or writing.
I doubt I would have fared as well if chinese had been the norm

 

[henryMCVII]

Well, in time, using a language make you more fluent in it, and considerably lessen the need of "conscious" translation.

I didn't try to convince anyone. I just stated my very own point of view: I prefer playing in my mother language. That's all. You don't have to endorse, but it would be nice, if you would accept my point without telling me yours is worth much more becouse of whatever.