How Are You Liking The Barbarians Game Mode?

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

After a couple of games I have to say the mode is not quite as interesting as I had hoped. Apart from occaisonally getting a unique unit from a camp, and seeing LOTS of city states placed really badly on the north/south pole, it's basically just a regular game

I personally like it that way which means I'd want it on all the time, just like the corporations mode.
I like SS and Heroes too but I don't feel like they need to be in every game.

 

[UWHabs]

I personally like it that way which means I'd want it on all the time, just like the corporations mode.
I like SS and Heroes too but I don't feel like they need to be in every game.

Yeah, I think we kind of got spoiled by the other modes being almost complete overhauls and so over the top, that a mode that is in a lot of ways much simpler doesn't have quite the WOW factor to it.

Which is fine for me. Would I like things done a little differently? Sure. But overall, it mostly works outside a few corner cases, and I think if the game was actually spawning camps at the rate that some people seem to want here, we'd get even more complaints about barbarians overrunning the entire world.

I was playing through a game tonight, standard continents map. Ended up with a lot of space, and after the initial setup, camps spawning and clearing, it looks like in my area we'll end up with 2 camps converting to city-states. One is at the far north, the other is basically sandwiched between a mountain range, lake, and desert. But because those 2 are not in very good areas, they will likely develop into CS. Were they in better spots, then I would probably rather those cities for myself, so I'd be sending troops out to clear the camps.

There's certainly things they could do to twist it more, though. Like in my game, there's a ton of open area in the map, actually. So I don't necessarily need to settle every city spot. I wonder what would happen if, say, a camp spawned in an area that I was only moderately interested in, but I was told at some point "Hey, if you leave this for a time, Geneva will spawn here". If we were actually told the CS, that would certainly strike a much more curious balance. Maybe I won't care about cultivating that northern ice fishing village if it only ended up being, say Kabul.

But I think that might be a little awkward, so really, I think I'll basically treat the mode like a somewhat cheap source of buying units, a little extra variation on barbarians, and if we get a few more ice fishing city-states, that's cool too.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

They should just become free cities until and unless specific criteria are met.

Nah, Free Cities are generally boring compared to City States.

 

[TigerBulkRate]

Overall, I find it pretty great. This feels like much more of an every-game mode than Heroes or Societies, just because it's overall much less powerful, and thus doesn't change the game as much. Playing on Deity at least, not all that much changed: most of the interactions you can have with the various tribes are just too expensive to do early game, so you mostly end up killing them. There's not a lot of reason to spend 200 gold to bribe a camp when you can just kill them and buy a builder instead. In some corner cases though, you can find some awesome opportunities. I found a camp selling Eagle Warriors in Classical for a mere 140 gold, a real bargain for a 28 CS unit. I also found one selling Toas for 200, which is just nuts considering how strong they are and allowed me to just monkey pound Persia as a result, which I'll never complain about . You'd have to pay about twice that to buy a Toa at retail so the camps can give you some really great discounts on unique units, I would try to keep an eye on what camp is selling what.

In short, a good little mode to add some spice to what was otherwise a pretty flat area of the game. Also, you get the bonus of the special unit spawns occasionally just totally wrecking the AI. I already saw a camp just casually spawn 5 Hypatists and pancake France, and that's always a good time. If I could make one small change, I'd add an envoy bonus after a camp flips into a CS based on how many interactions you've had with them. If I'm going to spend a lot of money and time babysitting a camp, I want to be suzerain as soon as it flips. Otherwise, a lot of the time it won't be worth the investment as opposed to the instant payout of murdering them.

 

[Ticio]

I'm enjoying it a lot, I think I will use it in almost all my games.

The only thing I do not like, is that they turn to CS too quickly. Normally for the second era they have already turn. Maybe making the "transformation pool" larger could be better so we still have barbs camps in other eras.

The other thing, I do not like is that it seems that the barbarian camps pool is limited. Therefore, after they transform, there will not be more barbs camps in the game. It is that correct?. Maybe they could add a limit to barb camps transformations, so after an X number we could still see new barb camps (I'm not sure if that is how it works).

 

[newbie2]

I don't know if its just bad luck, but I'm now in my 2nd game, and I've never been able to hire a unique unit, just standard warrior/swordsman/quadrireme/horseman. And then the AI just disperses the clan so you never get to see them grow to CS...

 

[Ticio]

I don't know if its just bad luck, but I'm now in my 2nd game, and I've never been able to hire a unique unit, just standard warrior/swordsman/quadrireme/horseman. And then the AI just disperses the clan so you never get to see them grow to CS...

i think it is bad luck. I could hire an eagle warrior and a birreme in the same game (but on slinger and 2 standard units too). I'm not sure if you can check it before purchasing the unit. I mean, seeing if the barb camp has UU (I did it for the birreme, I saw they had and when I purchased the unit it was a birreme).

 

[Bitterman]

The thing that bothers me the most is when you plunder a camp instead of eliminating it, it will auotmatically spawn a unit which is technologically ahead from the one it had before. This can lead to some ridicolous situations in which im facing crossbows with slingers or field cannons with archers, way before anyone else in the game have access to any of those units.

Instead they should spawn more units, not necessarly better. Like when you plunder a camp they get angry and try to retaliate against you in vengeance, the same way they would do if a scout spotted your capital and he came back alive to his camp.

 

[sethjohnson]

my last game on a small map ended up with 15 city states... i had collective activism giving me +596 culture and international space agency giving me +716 science

 

[Linklite]

Yeah, I think we kind of got spoiled by the other modes being almost complete overhauls and so over the top, that a mode that is in a lot of ways much simpler doesn't have quite the WOW factor to it.

You would describe the other modes as " complete overhauls"? I don't think they're even overly impactful, personally.

1. Apocalypse forces your disaaternfrequency to max, adds a couple of disasters and the soothsayer. To be honest, someone could be playing this mode and, if they didn't recruit a soothsayer, I wouldn't know the difference.
2. Secret Societies give you some bonuses, but it doesn't make a massive difference to how you play. Certainly influential, but I wouldn't describe it as an overhaul.
3. Dramatic Ages basically just up the stakes in existing mechanics. While it could potentially have significant effect on the map, I don't think it would significantly change your tactics and methods, particularly if you are good at getting Era Score.
4. Tech and Civic shuffle is something that if you're stuck in a rut and have your optimised route, I can see it being worthwhile. For people like me who just plots it out one step at a time, it has no major effect.
5. Corporations and Monopolies is, at base, just an extra ability for builders and GMs. Of course, it's massively OP so it is fundamentally changing the game at the moment, but I think it will receive a major nerf soon. At base though, it's not that big of a change.
6. Heroes and Legends gives you several extra units, but again, I think it falls quite short of an "overhaul".

It's a thought that I've been having lately, that game modes are.being given more credit for changing gameplay than perhaps they're due. The Barb mode, with the massive influx of CSs, has a significant affect on how I play. More than Apocalypse, Shuffle or Heroes, and M&Cs too once it gets nerfed, and probably even SS. I still at the point where I can't guarantee a GA for every era (and rarely do anymore for the first era, for some reason), so Dramatic Ages still has a bigger effect for me.

 

[Vizurok]

You would describe the other modes as " complete overhauls"? I don't think they're even overly impactful, personally.

1. Apocalypse forces your disaaternfrequency to max, adds a couple of disasters and the soothsayer. To be honest, someone could be playing this mode and, if they didn't recruit a soothsayer, I wouldn't know the difference.
2. Secret Societies give you some bonuses, but it doesn't make a massive difference to how you play. Certainly influential, but I wouldn't describe it as an overhaul.
3. Dramatic Ages basically just up the stakes in existing mechanics. While it could potentially have significant effect on the map, I don't think it would significantly change your tactics and methods, particularly if you are good at getting Era Score.
4. Tech and Civic shuffle is something that if you're stuck in a rut and have your optimised route, I can see it being worthwhile. For people like me who just plots it out one step at a time, it has no major effect.
5. Corporations and Monopolies is, at base, just an extra ability for builders and GMs. Of course, it's massively OP so it is fundamentally changing the game at the moment, but I think it will receive a major nerf soon. At base though, it's not that big of a change.
6. Heroes and Legends gives you several extra units, but again, I think it falls quite short of an "overhaul".

It's a thought that I've been having lately, that game modes are.being given more credit for changing gameplay than perhaps they're due. The Barb mode, with the massive influx of CSs, has a significant affect on how I play. More than Apocalypse, Shuffle or Heroes, and M&Cs too once it gets nerfed, and probably even SS. I still at the point where I can't guarantee a GA for every era (and rarely do anymore for the first era, for some reason), so Dramatic Ages still has a bigger effect for me.

But how does the Barbs mode affect your early game at all? SS and Heroes provide you with crazy amounts of extra yields in the game that will definitely help your snowball potential. On the other hand, the only real effect of the Barbs mode is that you might get some extra CSs in the middle game - but you still have to invest your envoys in them, and the only advantage that I can think of is that you might find more ideal CSs for your goals in a larger pool. Maybe in the late game, you will be able to gain more suzerainships than usual that translates into a more powerful ISS and Collective Activism but even that does not matter that much by that time.

 

[Smity2k1]

On the bright side, this was very easy to fix. For those interested in not getting normal (bugged) camps, please download the fix here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2412130013

Limitations:

1. There is still a cap, it is just 3 times as large. So the chance of it happening should be very slim.
2. Names and icons are reused. For example: It is possible (but unlikely) to have two Yellow Goat clans in the game at the same time.
3. This can be loaded into an existing game and will help with future camps. Existing camps which have been broken is not affected.

On the bright side, this was very easy to fix. For those interested in not getting normal (bugged) camps, please download the fix here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2412130013

Limitations:

1. There is still a cap, it is just 3 times as large. So the chance of it happening should be very slim.
2. Names and icons are reused. For example: It is possible (but unlikely) to have two Yellow Goat clans in the game at the same time.
3. This can be loaded into an existing game and will help with future camps. Existing camps which have been broken is not affected.

Thanks, I also like the ideas you presented to change the pacing from camps turning into CS on the steam workshop page comments.

 

[konokoni]

I've finally had a chance to start a game with this mode enabled. So far, I like it, but I would call its effects "subtle." If barb camps had been this way since the base game it would feel completely natural to me, it doesn't change the game much. I agree that the gold costs associated with bribing / hiring can be steep in the early game and I'm not sure it's worth the opportunity cost, barring discounted unique units. I haven't played through a whole game yet but I'm interested to see reports that this mode results in a lot of polar city states. When they announced this mode, I figured Firaxis would either 1. reduce the odds of polar camp spawns to prevent this, or 2. leave it as-is and AI aggressiveness towards barbarian camps would result in lots CS's spawning on the ice caps (which is apparently what happened). I hope they take a look at this and tune barb camp spawning away from the poles for this mode to prevent this; it's silly to find CS's in unsustainable locations.

Perhaps it's a chance for the Tilted Axis map to show its worth?

 

[Eyswein]

One feature I don't like is that if you set city states to particular ones to have them at the start of game, barbarian camp will not create new city states. Almost need two pools for city states now, one for start, and one for potential barbarian camp spawns.

 

[bonafide11]

I've only played one game with them, and it was pretty disappointing. There was a barb camp near my capital that a city state wiped out, but after that I never encountered another barbarian the rest of the game. There were no barbarians raiding me or roaming the countryside or anything. I noticed when I explored the world more a lot of city-states in badly placed areas in the north and south poles, but no barbarians. I'll give it another try to see if that was just a fluke, but it was just kind of meh.

 

[newbie2]

No, now I'm a bit further in my game and explored the ocean, you see a lot of badly placed citystates. Offcours the AI never bothers to explore there, so it's easy suzerain bonus....


I know the AI in the base game isnt great, but they are even worse in all the special gamemodes...

 

[The Civs 6]

You would describe the other modes as " complete overhauls"? I don't think they're even overly impactful, personally.

1. Apocalypse forces your disaaternfrequency to max, adds a couple of disasters and the soothsayer. To be honest, someone could be playing this mode and, if they didn't recruit a soothsayer, I wouldn't know the difference.
2. Secret Societies give you some bonuses, but it doesn't make a massive difference to how you play. Certainly influential, but I wouldn't describe it as an overhaul.
3. Dramatic Ages basically just up the stakes in existing mechanics. While it could potentially have significant effect on the map, I don't think it would significantly change your tactics and methods, particularly if you are good at getting Era Score.
4. Tech and Civic shuffle is something that if you're stuck in a rut and have your optimised route, I can see it being worthwhile. For people like me who just plots it out one step at a time, it has no major effect.
5. Corporations and Monopolies is, at base, just an extra ability for builders and GMs. Of course, it's massively OP so it is fundamentally changing the game at the moment, but I think it will receive a major nerf soon. At base though, it's not that big of a change.
6. Heroes and Legends gives you several extra units, but again, I think it falls quite short of an "overhaul".

It's a thought that I've been having lately, that game modes are.being given more credit for changing gameplay than perhaps they're due. The Barb mode, with the massive influx of CSs, has a significant affect on how I play. More than Apocalypse, Shuffle or Heroes, and M&Cs too once it gets nerfed, and probably even SS. I still at the point where I can't guarantee a GA for every era (and rarely do anymore for the first era, for some reason), so Dramatic Ages still has a bigger effect for me.

Ironically, the game mode that has the largest impact on gameplay - which I am fairly confident in most games would be dramatic ages - is definitely the least interesting one they released. still, I would say that heroes and legends and secret societies both dramatically change the game just by virtue of adding new factors to consider in the early game.

 

[Larsenex]

So far I don't mind the mode. I started a new game last night. I cleared a Barbarian camp but the option to keep hiring or such persisted. I have not see if that bug will stay or not when i load game again. I think I am going to like corporations.

I am so used to exterminating the Barbarians I don't know if hiring them, Bribing them is productive at all. I could have bought at quadrireme which I am tempted to do not having that tech yet.

I guess I need a few games played to see how they fare.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

No, now I'm a bit further in my game and explored the ocean, you see a lot of badly placed citystates. Offcours the AI never bothers to explore there, so it's easy suzerain bonus....


I know the AI in the base game isnt great, but they are even worse in all the special gamemodes...

Yeah, the new city-states, particularly ones off the main landmasses, are ripe for suzeraining by the human player. I should try a game with Norway and/or the Maori and see if that affects anything.

 

[bengalryan9]

I noticed when I explored the world more a lot of city-states in badly placed areas in the north and south poles, but no barbarians.

Those city-states *were* the barbarians.