How can I win at Monarch

[Peddleking]

Well, I've moved my way up through the ranks and started playing at Monarch, and am getting my butt relatively kicked. Relatively because I'm in the game quite awhile, but know I can't win.

From what I've read here, the way to win at Monarch is military force. I figure I could do that, but I'm not all that interested in winning that way. The reason I love Civ is that you can win by building and other forms of cleverness besides the military ones; There are few other games like that.

My problem winning any other way is I seem perpetually trapped at advances taking 40 turns (at least as long as I'm not losing money every turn). I got to 1500 AD as the Japanese, I had a democracy, marketplaces and libraries in every city, Universities in the big ones, Newton's University, a forbidden palace, etc. And I still can't dial my research up above 20% or so without getting to negative income, and advances are taking 40 turns. I kept pace thus far by buying advances, and trading the resources I hogged at the beginning.

I ahve noticed that once a bunch of other people have an advance, it suddenly takes only a few turns to develop it, and that helped me keep pace at well. Is that only a feature of Monarch level? I've never seen it before?

Any help mucho appreciated. In case it's relavent, I'm on a Mac.

 

[Mr Spoons]

I'm having the same problem. After annihilating the AI on Regent I'm getting what can only be described as a right kicking on Monarch. I get so far only to find that some piddly little civ less than half my size has suddenly developed cavalry and is storming through my territory, ably supported by the other civs with whom it's been fighting with for the last few centuries.

From the forums it would seem the way round this is to be devious and gain MPPs with other civs, play them off each other and then cheerfully stab them in the back. Cash also seems to be more important than scientific research than on the easier difficulty levels - you can buy tech or develop the GL and watch it roll in (I would imagine you would need a fair number of civs to guarantee this working, 8+?).

The use of trade is also much more pronounced - from the two Monarch level games I've played it looks like a good strategy to get other civs so heavily indebted to you that they can't afford to run away with their tech. Thus your own cash flow increases and you can buy tech from those civs who aren't utterly indentured to you.

Finally, the AI seems to pay attention to the number of units in a city, not the strength of these units. For example, two warriors put it offmore than one spearman. Could be wrong though.

Ah well, back to it. Any hints and tips gratefully received.

Pip pip.

 

[skaternate]

Well lets see, monarch level. Easy enough if you know what you are doing, first off don't play on a bunch of islands! The map genarator only places one luxery per civ on a landmass. This is key to victory. If you aren't the type that likes war, then you must be a luxery/resource tycon. You've got to be the powerbrooker. Let them learn for you and trade off your excess lux/res to them for their knowledge. You must have many cities, aim for a min. of at least ten more cities than the AI has. You can achieve this either by mass early settler production or by warmonger. I myself found civ III difficult on monarch up untill I learned how to properly warmonger, now I can beat it on any level. Having your forbiden palace up early is key, and the further from your palace, while staying at a good position for a second heart is key. This is why early warmongering is so great! Do what ever you want in the late game but the best place for a FP is were the corruption is total! That means you can't feasibly build a FP on your own you need a great leader, how to do this, early war! About twenty horseman is enough to really devistate the AI on monarch, build the proper amount of reinforcements and your good. Preferable landmass if the endgame is a UN vic, contents with about three civs on them separated by ocean. Two is fine if you only want to kill one guy, but make sure he is dead before the AI has contact with him, that way he doesn't tell him of your evil deeds. It's your own skeleton in the closet. The is another method for making the AI like you when your warring, make them partners in your destruction, make a pact with all other civs, and DONT BREAK IT!!! Once the target is destroyed the AI will look at as if nothing ever happened.

As for research what gov. are you using? Believe it or not monarch is the better gov over republic for SMALL CITIES! with large numbers of military or worker units. In republic you must pay for all these units, witch can suck a pocket-book dry (monarch pays for so many units per city) if your cities are 4 or smaller, I don't go republic untill my cities are 5 and up, or at least the majority. Then you should have no problem researching. When researching, research the FASTEST KNOWLEDGE FIRST. case in point: It takes you 10 turns to learn pottery or 24 to learn writing. You go for writing get it in 20, due to civ growth, and then learn pottery in 6. It took 26 turns to learn these two knowledges. Say you go for pottery first learn it in 8 then go for writing and learn it in 16 due to city growth, you spent a total of 24 turns learning these same two knowledges. This saves 2 turns in the long run. Multiply this by a whole game and the profits are enormous.

Any thing else?

 

[Daaraa]

The resource tycoon is the way to go if you want to be a peaceful civ. However, keep in mind that all great civs, no matter how peaceable they are, at some point in time had to fight a war. I don't think it is possible to get through a diety game without ever fighting in a war.

Great thoughts skaternate.

 

[Mr Spoons]

Thanks for the tips skaternate - I'll give them a go tonight.

I agree with Daaraa in that I suppose there are no peaceful solutions, especially if you're trying for a big score as this mainly depends (I think) on population. Thus the bigger the population, the more cities you need. The more cities you need, the more territory you need. The more territory you need, the greater the inevitability of conflict.

Also, if you want leaders then you are going to have to do a lot of fighting. The base chance of getting a leader from a victorious elite unit is apparently 1/16 - and remember you are going to have to battle your way up to elite from veteran first, even if you have barracks. I suppose you could have lots of Barbarians and hunt them all down though...

Finally, great point about the speed of acquiring new tech!

Pip Pip.

 

[UofAzKid]

I usually always try to eliminate any nearby civs early in the game. Two reaons for this:

The first is to gain territory. This increases your chances of resources. That's obvious. The second is your chances of a leader appearing is better. You'll need one or two.

The problem I find with this approach is that the production is focused on military and not culture. You will have to learn how to balance the two. I've been lucky enough to balance both and still stay ahead in score.

When you gain and build enough cities, you will have the option of building a FP. By then I usually have a leader. I rush build the FP with a leader in a city that is in the center of other maxed out or highly corrupted cities.

Next important thing is to keep your citizens happy. Find tons of lux. The Oracle is helpful and always always build the Sistine Chapel. I think that's a must in all levels.

The whole tech thing bothers me because I have that problem too. If you build lots of roads around your cities, this helps alleviate the problem. I suggest trading and buying techs when you get the chance.

I'm still learning also. But I like to hear how other people approach the game. Leave tips!

 

[Daaraa]

The lag in tech research shouldn't bother you too much. If you look at reality (Who ever said civ 3 is based on reality ) there aren't too many civs that are that backwards in technology that there are pikemen defending against tanks. Sure the Aztecs were behind when Colombus came to america, but they were an isolated civ.
Besides, if I'm just ahead or a little behind I don't mind so much as long as I'm the resource tycoon. Its more fun to wipe out a civ on equal terms anyways. :tank:

 

[SKILORD]

I used to have exactly the same problem but i've managed to beat Monarch repeatedly.

There is hope

 

[Mr Spoons]

Well that was fun...

I put the tips on the board into practice and turned previous hidings into a pretty good victory (2,600+ points). Victory was achieved by space race, although I could probably have gone for conquest too...

How did I do it? Well, can't guarantee this'll work for everyone, but since it's the World Cup, here's my starting eleven..

1) Kill your next-door neighbour(s). Firstly, you need space to expand and secondly, you don't want someone with a potentially superior army on your doorstep. I was quite lucky - I played on continent setting and on an 8 civ game was only sharing one continent with the Iroquois. Playing as the Aztecs I created 4 jaguar warriors and overwhelmed two of their cities. By that time I had finished an archer to take out the last one. If there had been another civ nearby I would also have taken them out.

2) Breed like rabbits. Once you have space, fill it. Stay close though – you’re better having a slight overlap in your cities and maximising your resources early.

3) Develop your cities and make sure they are all linked by roads. Get your hands on as many luxuries/resources as you can.

4) Early on, research things that will be useful, such as military tech and literature. Try and build as strong an army as possible.

5) Build the Forbidden Palace as quickly as you can. This is possibly the only wonder you truly need (apart from Apollo I suppose). Try and build two clusters of cities, one with your capital as its hub, the other centred on your FP city.

6) Sooner or later you will contact other civs. Trade, barter and steal from them. This means trade your luxuries for cash and tech, barter tech you got from one civ with the others and steal tech when you can't buy it.

7) Be aggressive. When you see an opportunity to grab territory, do it. A good time is when the civ you want to conquer is at war with someone else and has diverted their good units away from your strike point. You don't have to have an alliance but this can help. Avoid MPPs - they can drag you into wars when you aren't ready.

8) Defend your border cities with lots of units. The further into your territory, the less defence you need.

9) When attacked, let the enemy pound away at your defences. You may lose some defenders and a few border cities but you will wipe out a good chunk of their offensive capability. Meanwhile your own offensive units are waiting to introduce themselves...

10) Don't get hung up on science. After I got the basics and started trading I just maxed out my cash bar. Any tech I needed I bought, traded or stole (be prepared for the odd war if you choose to steal though). The only time I put my tech up was for the last two techs I needed to win the game. By that time I had so much cash I just maxed out the science rate.

11) Don't waste your leaders on armies. Save them for the GWs that will make all the difference.

A lengthy post I know. Hope a few of these tips help though..

On to Emperor...

Pip pip.

 

[God]

My strategy on regent has really changed when I moved to monarch.
I no longer build granaries for early expansion. Major change for me. The AI will out expand me without granaries, but instead, between settlers, build lots of chariots, warriors or archers. Now and then between settlers build a temple or libary. Do this for a while till you exeed the optimal city limit by a few cities. Then get a good position for your FP and build it there. It should be later ancient era. Go upgrade a few warriors or chariots and conquer a few cities from as many neighbors as possible. This will cripple them. Don't destroy the civ, take 4-5 cities then make peace, and get techs. Continue. After doing this too 2 or 3 civs, you sould be in the middle ages. Build marketplaces and aqueducsts now as you enter Middle Ages. You should have some libaries, and getting some research done. This is a good time to switch to monarchy. Republic sucks with the unit support. Research the techs on the bottom of the tree, like invention, gunpowder etc. Trade those for the ones that the AI researches. Upgrade horesmen to knights and go and conquer if you want.

Later in the Middle Ages, you should have a good economy and infrastructure. Build some universities and chathedrals, and tons of knights. Then get Military Tradition ASAP! Upgrade those knights to cavalry, for only 20 gold per knight, or 10 if you get Leo's. You should build alot of knights to upgrade. Then go off and do some heavy fighting. Try to take out full civs. Demand techs and gold and make peace once they one city.

From there, just research techs in the Industrial age and trade some with the AI. Try to make wars through MPPs. You'll get it from there.

 

[Marx]

Same probs here. I can conquer one or two nearby civs, but the others are expanding on such a exhoribitant speed I can`t follow them.

 

[skaternate]

Same probs here. I can conquer one or two nearby civs, but the others are expanding on such a exhoribitant speed I can`t follow them

This should only be a problem on Diety level, as any level below you should be able to keep up. On monarch and lower you should be able to easily grow faster. The catch is that unlike civ 1 & 2, where you could use outer cities to build settlers, you can't do that anymore. You must build roads to your outskirts, the easiest way to do this is with worker factories on your outskirts, that is any city that grows in ten and builds workers in ten. And with your inner cities never stop building settlers when they can, such as build say chariot, settler, chariot, settler, and don't stop untill you have ran out of room. I usally don't start my first war untill I am out of room to spread myself. Then once out of room attack. This way you never stop spreading.

 

[Peddleking]

Thanks for all the replies. I have successfully won at Monarch twice now.

But I feel like everyone else must be playing a different game than me. I still regularly run into starting conditions at Monarch that I just don't think are winnable. Like being pinned in between 3 civ's all of whom are outproducing me, without being able to get at iron without going through them. Does everyone else just quit a game like that and only mention the games they win?

I've definitely confirmed the AI players are not playing by the same rules as the game gets more difficult. They get to produce stuff faster and generate more science that I possibly can. I frown on that approach to making progessive levels harder. It seems to me it's a little bit of laziness on the part of the game designers; They can't make the AI good enough to beat a good player just by giving the AI advantages in starting location; I think the way to make the game harder should be to plop the human down in a horrible location while putting the AI's in gardens of eden. Just my opinion I've been wanting to vent...

 

[skaternate]

I still regularly run into starting conditions at Monarch that I just don't think are winnable. Like being pinned in between 3 civ's all of whom are outproducing me, without being able to get at iron without going through them

You don't need Iron to beat enemy civs to a bloody pulp, I don't even like swordsmen anymore, too unupgradeable. I use horesman too do the job of slaughtering nearby enemies, plus they can run. You can sweep through them faster, hit and run, and upgrade all the way to cavalry. If you play a lot of games where you are worried about not getting either play as the Indians. Then you get the war elaphent, just a knight that requires no resources.

Does everyone else just quit a game like that and only mention the games they win?

I'm sure some probably do. Not me. I though make it a point not to play some games, like starting in tundra, on a 93 tile island, or lots of jungle! I just check my start spot and reload. However I haven't played a single game thats not either a tourny or GOM since the tourny started. So now my start spots are predefined.

 

[Peddleking]

OK, just substitute horses for iron and my point stands. I've had starting situations where getting horses was virtually impossible too.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by Peddleking
I still regularly run into starting conditions at Monarch that I just don't think are winnable. Like being pinned in between 3 civ's all of whom are outproducing me, without being able to get at iron without going through them. Does everyone else just quit a game like that and only mention the games they win?.

Don't give up! I have learned more about Civ3 and alternative strategies by playing out every game to the end than I could ever learn by only playing my good starts. Just don't expect to win every game . Seriously, as long as you don't frustrate easily, playing out those "losing" situations can really open your eyes; just a few of the things I learned by playing out games where I was well down the list of "top civs" even well into the game: (1) using diplomacy to win friends and frustrate enemies; (2) using trade in very surprising ways to strengthen your civ; (3) building an effective defense / military capability without key resources (play the Persians without iron!); (4) truly squeezing every advantage you can out of the geography of your territory. The list goes on.

When you're really ready for a challenge (although can be very frustrating!), play all random settings so that you don't even know what type of map, age, weather settings, etc. when you start. As a random game, playing as Zulu (expansionist, militaristic) on an acrhipelago, without barbarians (so no goody huts), no other civs on island, lots of jungle and mountains -- quite a challenge!

I've definitely confirmed the AI players are not playing by the same rules as the game gets more difficult. They get to produce stuff faster and generate more science that I possibly can..

Yes, this is true. You can see the exact advantages in the editor

 

[Peddleking]

"quote: When you're really ready for a challenge (although can be very frustrating!), play all random setting"

hohoho! That's the only way I play. That explains a few things.

At regent I won a couple of games without iron and/or horses and/or saltpeter.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by Peddleking
"quote: When you're really ready for a challenge (although can be very frustrating!), play all random setting"

hohoho! That's the only way I play. That explains a few things.

At regent I won a couple of games without iron and/or horses and/or saltpeter.

Great! I've found that it really helped me to understand the advantages / disadvantages of each of the different civs, particularly with regard to map configuration (i.e., playing an expansionist civ when there are no goddy huts eviscerates the principal (IMHO) advantage conferred by the expansionist trait).

Do you also not know the map features (I don't know too many people who do this)? What I mean is, even if you click random settings, the picture of the setting pops up (and I can't help but notice it) -- so I choose "all random," start a game, and then immediately just do a "quick start" from the main menu (which uses your map selections from the last start).

I find it very entertaining having to figure out whether I'm on panagea, archipelago, etc., whether I will have early contact with a bunch of other civs or will be somewhat isolated, etc. -- it really impacts strategic decisions regarding research routes / wonder building.

 

[skaternate]

OK, just substitute horses for iron and my point stands. I've had starting situations where getting horses was virtually impossible too.

Like I said use the Indians! Their UU is nothing to die for, its just a normal knight, but it requires no resources! Get your knights first, which isn't that hard on monarchy, and take your iron, and horses by force! Monarch is a very easy AI, If you keep peace all game and their is relatively little war the AI USUALLY won't learn chivalry. Then kill. kill. kill!