How do i improve my game?

Kaka

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
18
Hi Civ Players

I just finished my first long real game. I went for the science victory.

Game info:
Babylon
Pangea
Small Map
Warlord

I used some of the tactics from this site and I succeeded. I won. In turn 426......... This is whats irritating me. It amazing to watch you guys launching the spaceship in around turn 250. How do you do it? Any tips or other things?

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Thanks!! :)
 

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Must be vanilla. No faith counter.
That's what I saw. But you can disable religion in G&K and I'm not sure if it shows in the bar if disabled.
Now, assuming OP plays vanilla, I need to take a minute and recall how to handle it. :D

Anyways, Research Agreements are huge part of early science finishes especially in vanilla. Thus RA article in War Academy is good place to start. :)
 
More cities and more population.

When did you puppet those cities? I'm guessing you were sitting on two cities for most of early game, and didn't go straight to each science tech.

I forgot most of everything about vanilla, but I'm sure others will be able to give a more thorough answer.

Yeah, it is vanilla. I opened up the save file. Main city ~35 pop, secondary in low 20's. A handful of Chinese puppets.
 
I strongly suspect the reason for that late a space ship victory is that National College was built extremely late (if at all) in combo with science specialists not being run.

Specific to Babylon's UA:
With Vanilla: Settler first Great Scientist, bulb the rest.
G&K: Probably best to settle second one as well. Consider settling 3rd and maybe even the 4th one if you get that one fast enough. I strongly suspect after that point bulbing better.

Fastest possible science win: Build Great Library; use free tech for ultra early 1 city National College. Make Education a priority.
 
It's Vanilla yes :)

@joncnunn : I used this strategy with tradition instead of liberty. I got my NC around T100.

@Matthew : I played with 2 city's and one puppet for most of the game. Yes

@The Pilgrim : I think you are right. I didn't use RA at all.
 
It's Vanilla yes :)

@joncnunn : I used this strategy with tradition instead of liberty. I got my NC around T100.

Same number of city at same time doesn't translate well from a strategy designed for Liberty to one designed for Tradition. Liberty gets you a free settler which allowed the faster library (production and/or cash) which is why he still gets NC before turn 70.

Also Tradition is weaker in Vanilla. (In G&K, you get free aqueducts for completing Tradition; you don't in vanilla. In addition, in vanilla if you already have all free cultural buildings, legalism goes to waste; in G&K its saved until you get the tech for the next cultural building.
 
I'm not sure about benchmarks for smaller empires and vanilla, but my ~250 wins usually consist of rushing my nearest neighbor and getting 6-8 cities ASAP and filling scientist slots as soon as I can without harming growth.

750 science isn't terrible, but it depends on when you hit it. You can reach close to that shortly after public schools with enough population.

Also, you probably should have saved most of those GS's and bubbled them towards end. You tend to get more beakers.
 
Tradition finisher still good in vanilla. In fact, I remember a thread with some math showing that the +2 food from a granary is preferable to an aqueduct, so nya. All you have to do is grow. Always be growing. If you cant get a library in your second city done the turn you finish philosophy, rush buy it. Rush buy a university the turn you finish education and staff it. Don't put your city on production focus and leave it, unless you manually reallocate tiles after each growth.
 
Now, assuming OP plays vanilla, I need to take a minute and recall how to handle it. :D

You can just link the guy to your t.199 vanilla science vic lets play. ;) Was a revelation to me at the time.

To OP: Search the lets play forum.
 
That's what I saw. But you can disable religion in G&K and I'm not sure if it shows in the bar if disabled.

Aye, if religion was disabled, it will display as RELIGION:OFF instead.

As for OP's question, I will go for 6-7 cities, finish Liberty asap, go Hagia Sophia + Porcelain Tower (rushed with GE from HS) and keep the RA train rolling. Wonderspam some nice wonders like Notre Dame and Sistine to keep that culture flowing to rush Rationalism asap... and farm great scientists. Set your cities to science focus once at 5 pop and have libraries and eventually unis.

e: And going to second Moriarte's suggestion above! Here's a link.
 
You can just link the guy to your t.199 vanilla science vic lets play. ;) Was a revelation to me at the time.
Really? :) All credit goes to DaveMcW, vexing, Martin Alvito and MadDjinn. I had very little to do with anything. But I'm glad to hear it was helpful. :)

Actually, I wanted to link it, but forgot. Thanks, smallfish. :)

@kaka
Before starting that challenge I spent a lot of hours (and failed attempts) trying to figure out how to time the research with SP's and maximize RA's output. I've read RA article in WA numerous times. That's why I referred you to it. To be honest, I don't remember when you finish without RA's in vanilla. Chazzycat had 330 ish finish without bulbing GS and without RA's. It would have been much faster with bulbing. Maybe even 80 turns faster. But I'm not sure. I think for sub 250 RA's are still needed.

That being said, on warlord difficulty (tiny detail I missed earlier :mischief:), RA's would be hard to pull off due to AI's bankruptcy and backwardness. You need lots and lots of cash to fund them. You pay for both parties in addition to penalties for being eras ahead. Therefore I'd definitely recommend having as many cities (more cities = more universities = more GS + more science) as happiness can support and as powerful economy as possible.

Aye, if religion was disabled, it will display as RELIGION:OFF instead.
Thanks. Didn't know that.

as for OP's question, I will go for 6-7 cities, finish Liberty asap, go Hagia Sophia + Porcelain Tower (rushed with GE from HS) and keep the RA train rolling. Wonderspam some nice wonders like Notre Dame and Sistine to keep that culture flowing to rush Rationalism asap... and farm great scientists. Set your cities to science focus once at 5 pop and have libraries and eventually unis
I agree. 6-8 cities is a good number generally. Prioritize science buildings, fill scientists asap in universities/public schools, save all GS to the end, then bulb all expensive techs. You'll have ~7 for crazy bulbing party with non Babylon civ. More with them (meaning you start bulbing earlier).

Also, you may attach your midgame save, let's say, t125 of your next game and then we'd be more specific. It's hard to give any decent theoretic advice regarding vanilla. Feels like it was so so long ago. :)
 
I agree. 6-8 cities is a good number generally.

Would you use turns to get 5-7 settlers? Or conquer enemy cities instead? When would you build these settlers? And when is it too late?


Also, you may attach your midgame save, let's say, t125 of your next game and then we'd be more specific. It's hard to give any decent theoretic advice regarding vanilla. Feels like it was so so long ago. :)

I have attached two saves: Turn 90 and Turn 208 from the save game as above.

Thank you all very much!
 

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You can take Liberty free settler to settle your second city and then build the NC. Then expand some more, to 4 cities. When you gain more happiness (Notre Dame is advisable) settle the rest. AI's cities count too, of course. But they should be good cities, e.g. capitals. Which can be annexed. If you can't/don't want to capture capitals, settle you own cities. After... I don't know, maybe 150 there is no really point to settle more, just capture some. That's the general path I think you should start with. For early science finish you should build 4 cities before NC, but it's not easy to do without delaying it and takes a lot of practicing.

As for your saves:
The first one: I'm exceptionally surprised by your policy choices. Don't do that. Start with Liberty and finish Liberty. As smallfish suggested, pick great Engineer to rush Porcelain Tower. Build Hagia Sophia and get another engineer to rush Notre Dame. Mixing up policies like that is the worst possible choice one can make. Later, when you enter Renaissance, unlock Rationalism and finish at least the left side. Scientific Revolution gives you two free techs, so save it to the end to bulb the most expensive ones.

You don't need walls. It's better to have an additional archer per city. Build monuments first in all of your cities. Your culture is very low for this stage of the game. Try to ally cultural CS, build temples. Build granaries as well, they help growth. Let AI build the Pyramids and take it later if you want. Building settlers instead would have been better choice. Because you do need more cities. At least one to the north by spices and another one near marble. Bad city spot but this map lacks options. Akkad should have been built one East of its current location. By settling where you did you lost both river access and coast access. Killing Siam is a feasible way to expand on this non spectacular map too. Probably the best way.

I noticed you never traded with anyone. Sell spare open borders, luxury resources and unused strategic resources to AI. Friendly AI will give you 240:c5gold: per lux, 50:c5gold: for OB and 45 :c5gold: per strategic. Right now you can trade Washington 4 horses and OB for 230. If AI don't have enough money, take whatever they have plus as much gpt as you can get. If they dislike you, they'll pay less. Rami will buy wine and OB for 51 gold and 2gpt. Not much but better than nothing.
One more thing on diplo: the request not to settle near you is pointless. It does nothing other than aggravates AI. Don't denounce them as well, unless someone you're interested to be friends with did the same. Global politics screen doesn't show America denounce Siam, so there was no reason for you to do it either. Let him denounce you if he wants.
You should also check the demographics screen often. You're last in soldiers and Siam is not a big fan of yours. I suspect he's going to DoW you soon. So it's a good time to start building some army and take his cities.

I'll peek at your second save and post in a bit.
 
More of the same. 8 :c5culture: at turn 200 - I don't think I've ever seen something like this before. :)
Don't try to take out city states. Instead sell more stuff to Washington, upgrade your existing sword to longsword, buy another LS in capital and along with the rest of your army, you should be able to take some of Siamese cities. Maybe you'll need 3 longswords.
Since you discovered Astronomy, you should sail to meet everybody asap. That's what coastal cities are for. You can train ships, much more effective than sending workers to the sea. Speaking of workers, you have too many of them. 1.5 per city are enough. I also hope you didn't automate them. Never do that. Manual control is much better as well as educational. :)
You need to have all scientists in universities all the time. Currently you have 1/4. And start teching towards Scientific Theory and public schools.
 
If I remember, on Vanilla, I found optimum difficult was probably emperor, for having enough cash around and not being hassled too much and distracted from your goal. At first I couldn’t get close, I was launching consistently around the 250-260 turn mark, but from hours of playing around I eventually got a T195 launch. Keep going, from watching the excellent videos already mentioned on here and practicing yourself, you’ll be amazed what can be done.

If you think this is difficult try getting 260bpt by T105 or 360bpt by T136 :crazyeye:
 
If I remember, on Vanilla, I found optimum difficult was probably emperor, for having enough cash around and not being hassled too much and distracted from your goal. At first I couldn’t get close, I was launching consistently around the 250-260 turn mark, but from hours of playing around I eventually got a T195 launch. Keep going, from watching the excellent videos already mentioned on here and practicing yourself, you’ll be amazed what can be done.
I agree. Emperor is the most comfortable difficulty to achieve super fast win in vanilla. But, OP plays on warlord-prince. It will take some time. :)

If you think this is difficult try getting 260bpt by T105 or 360bpt by T136 :crazyeye:
We're all in the same boat. :D Btw, 360bpt by t136 stress me out less than 260 by t105. You can hit public schools before 136, and you will if you hit 260 before 105. :crazyeye:
 
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