How do we FORCE gaming companies to start releasing FINISHED Games???

Thank you for stating your opinion as if it were fact.

Provide some facts about the manuals, documentation, logs, and overviews that would persuade me that they weren't done with the least possible effort.

I'll point to the notification log that only logs the events from the big buttons on the right hand side of the screen and not the messages that disappear after two seconds on screen, such as your unit was bombarded or your fishing boats were pillaged. If you click on an entry it activates the big event button on the side of the screen. So if you've cancelled the big button then clicking a log entry does nothing and if your big button is still there then why do you need a log to activate it? This is the easiest notification log to build and the least useful.
 
Even tho i didnt preorder Civ 5 i feel like i was mislead and lied to....Plain and simple. It digusts me that they can get away with these unethical business practices.

Now i can see the full picture and realize they we have been hoodwinked.
2K/firaxis should be ashamed of this shell of a game...

I agree.
It seems that games released in this state are no more than con jobs.

How can we force quality and integrity as customers?

1-Boycott purchasing any future games or at least delay buying for 3 months.

2-Begin a class action (apparently this was done against Spore due to the intrusive DRM..do not know the outcome?) I feel steam is just as intrusive,even with the physical disc I don't feel like I own this game.

3-Begin a facebook page discrediting the game and the company and reviewers.
(It seems that the case is proven by the announcement of massive patches required
by Shafer himself-less than 2 weeks after release)
 
The last time I played a computer (non-console) game that did not have a patch or an update was 1978 (playing "Adventure" on a mainframe).
 
Empire total war is far worse for unfinished games than civ 5 will ever be. They literally released a full priced same time period sequel before the main new feature of empire was in empire. Which was multiplayer campaigns. And the multiplayer campaigns still don't work entirely. The campaign AI is still unbelievably terrible and another sequel has been announced. They also added multiplayer units you had to pay for. Which is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

I'd be angry if RTW weren't so awesome. And civ5 is the same because of civ2 and 4
 
Blizzard's track record was from making iconic ips like Diablo, Starcraft, and Warcraft and having good support. The internet was in it's infancy then so there was no widespread discourse on how finished a game was so there was no "reputation" for making "finished" or "complete" games back then. Everything these days is under a microscope and there are thousands of forums discussing the minutia of every game ad nauseam so these issues seem like they are unique but they are not.

I keep thinking this exactly. Do any of these "gool ol' days" codgers by any chance have the unresolved bugs list for Master of Magic or Master of Orion 2 handy? Master of Magic is supposed to be such a great classic, but you can pretty much shove your thumb up your ass and build a bunch of high-man paladins. After that just give the keyboard to your 8 year old sister and watch her win the game. Beyond the Sword is a thousand years ahead of Master of X.

Same as it ever was. There is nothing new under the sun, and there were never any good old days. Period.

Right now it seems like it because Civ4+BTS+Mods is such an incredibly deep and complete experience, but as a rule there is no such thing as the good old days.
 
Devs have always released unfinished games. in fact, it's better now since they actually PATCH them.

You want finished games? Start paying for development costs so they don't have to meet deadlines and rush out games.
 
Provide some facts about the manuals, documentation, logs, and overviews that would persuade me that they weren't done with the least possible effort.

I'll point to the notification log that only logs the events from the big buttons on the right hand side of the screen and not the messages that disappear after two seconds on screen, such as your unit was bombarded or your fishing boats were pillaged. If you click on an entry it activates the big event button on the side of the screen. So if you've cancelled the big button then clicking a log entry does nothing and if your big button is still there then why do you need a log to activate it? This is the easiest notification log to build and the least useful.

I don't need to persuade you of anything, nor do I need to provide "facts" to prove that my nice quality color manual and sufficient game logs don't already provide. See that? I countered your OPINION with my own.

It is your opinion that they are inferior, and since you do not work for 2k games, you can only offer an opinion of what type of effort was put into them. They are more than sufficient for my needs since I don't need overly verbose logs to keep track of everything going on.

If you want more thorough logs, request it. It is hardly a valid reason to claim that the game is unfinished, as you so boisterously express. I'll take AI focus over data and documentation any day of the week, particularly since I feel that the latter two are of high enough quality.
 
Here is a fact for you, When Civ I first came out, game budgets where small, teams where small, and designs where simple. Civ, in itself was probably one of the largest undertaking in terms of scale during that entire era. Comparatively, games did not consume much more than a meg or 2 of space on your computer, graphics where tiny 8x8 or 16x16 sprites, music was midi, and an entire game could be developed by 2-3 people with minimal investment. the Audience the developers where writing for was small, even large budget games had a small footprint on the world in general. There where half-finished games, I can remember a number of times I was upset with my purchase because it kept crashing or other problems. The games that didn't have as many problems rose to the top, but in many ways, I wish some of those unfinished games had a medium to be fixed.

Enter the modern game development world, teams consist of anywhere between 50 and 200+ people, budgets scale in the millions and tens of millions, graphics are rendered in glorious spectacles of high definition and 3D graphics, Music is Orchestral and professionally created, games now span 5-10GB of space, that's several orders of magnitude in scale difference from 1-2MB. Finally, gaming nowadays is the largest entertainment medium on the planet with the sole exception of Music, and with a larger audience always comes a larger portion of that audience that is unhappy with said product.

In the past, we didn't call a game mechanic broken and get pissed off until it was fixed, we worked around it until it didn't matter to us anymore. The Internet has done 2 things to the game industry, it has given developers an opportunity for a 2nd or even 3rd chance, and it has given consumers a medium to call a game mechanic broken rather than live with it.

TLDR; Games are bigger and more complex now, The internet has given both developers and consumers opportunities they would have never had at one point in time.
 
Dont buy expansion packs and dlc. With a game where expansion packs are the norm, hold off and just buy the complete edition. Message sent, money saved too.

Some people dont want to wait, but i guess you need to weigh how important you feel on getting a complete product.
 
Dont buy expansion packs and dlc. With a game where expansion packs are the norm, hold off and just buy the complete edition. Message sent, money saved too.

Some people dont want to wait, but i guess you need to weigh how important you feel on getting a complete product.

Expansion packs always end up fixing the game. If anything, avoid buying newly release games, wait for the patches. It's practically the same for you anyways; either buy it right away and wait months for it to be fixed, or buy it months from now when it's fixed. Except if you don't buy right away, they get penalized for pulling this kind of ****.
 
It is your opinion that they are inferior, and since you do not work for 2k games, you can only offer an opinion of what type of effort was put into them.

Ok you win. 2k games are incredibly incompetent as they put an awful lot of effort into something that still looks if it was slapped together as a rush job to meet a release deadline.
 
Cant have your cake and eat it too... If the game was delayed there would be just as many posts complaining about how they are taking too long to perfect it instead of just releasing the game. Guess it's always a lose lose situation for gaming companies, so many whiners... I'm glad I have a great game that will get better with time and have the patience to enjoy it.
 
Answer to the question:

1. DO NOT by any games on their released day.

2. Community must seek for a real GOOD GAME REVIEWERS who their salaries are not from the game company but the community. I really like the idea that I, gamer, pay a small cash to reviewer for recommendation before buying a game.

3. Seek legal actions for being abused, cheated by these game maker companies. (when you buy an out-dated food in supermarket, what you want to do?)

4. Any more?
 
Don't buy the games? less demand will force them to make a better product?

I for one am fine with "paid beta" if I know the company is going to put effort into the long term status of the game. Thousands of users inputting feedback make the evolution of the final product faster. Then I get to have the "Finished Product" faster in the long run than it would take for internal QA to finish.

Summary.. faster finished product for the same price.. plus I get to play beta and watch it evolve.
 
But if they stop support as for Bioshock 2? You have paid a rushed product and play happily your beta, waiting for patch and stuff... Then 2k tells you after six months of waiting: i'm sorry, we come to the conclusion that it is not worth to be supported, stay tuned for our next game...

I can see you happy and grateful buying their next game...:crazyeye:
 
Correct me if i am wrong? People are saying:

Don't buy, Don't Pre-order -> Less Sales, Less Demands -> Less profit = Better Game?

If you want a better civ5, support the product. It's not like civ are made for the mass market its a niche game.
 
One year from now I'll be playing Civ5 along with some kind of nice UI mod looking back on all of this and laughing. For now I'm just playing Civ4 and waiting for patches to roll out. Nothing new under the sun.
 
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