How do you feel about the religions in FF?

[Quetz]

law mana ftw!

 

[Onionsoilder]

If I can find a way to make forest-building available with FoL, that would be easier...

But I duno how to do that.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Here's my summary:

Fellowship: Perfect for elven civs, but nigh-useless for everyone else.
I know it's part of the elves' flavor, but it wouldn't be too hard to give SOME benefits to us round-ears for following the religion. I say let Fawns be able to build the resource improvements (pastures, wineries, plantations, etc.) in forests at a slow work rate (so the elves are still better), and let Satyrs be able to build any improvement. That way you'd need to be heavily invested in the Fellowship in order to get the full benefits, and it gives Fawns and Satyrs some worth outside of combat, as well (right now they're just fancy, overcost hunters/rangers).

Runes: Perfect the way it is. Leave it alone.

Overlords: Needs more of a kick now that Slavery is no longer restricted to them. Let the Tower of Complacency grant +3 happiness in all cities and give OO religions additional bonuses for pop-rushing (maybe a new civic?). Militarily, Overlords is fine, but it needs a bit of homeland benefit to keep up with the others.

Empyrean: Waaay too militaristic for a religion of diplomats. A new, non-combat hero would be nice but they need something for the home front as well. I was playing around with giving the Empyrean a Great Person emphasis, with temples and wonders granting free specialists in every city. It synched really well with the Malakim but it could be expanded to every civ, as well. I always saw the Empyrean as somewhat based on early Islam (like the Order is based on Catholicism), so maybe there should be some sort of pilgrimage mechanic? It certainly would make the Open Borders resolution on the Overcouncil much more useful.

Order: I think between Social Order and Unyielding Order, the Order has way too much happycap-elimination and not enough crusading. I mean sure, they're extremely intolerant of dissent, but this much power makes them a builder's dream come true. I say make Unyielding Order an arcane spell again and give Host of the Einherjar to the Priors instead, along with some Law affinity. This'll give Order priests some combat power (which they sorely need) and make the Einherjar less similar to Pit Beasts (right now, they're functionally identical, and you know how everyone here hates symmetry).

Veil: Definitely fits the bill of something you either want to join wholeheartedly or stop at all costs. Especially in FF, since you can use Pax Diabolos to buy leniency from the demons that'll be rampaging across the continent. This one's good to me.

Esus: Hoo boy. This one needs a LOT of work to catch up to the others. Gibbon's ability needs to be reworked so that you can control your civ and your rival civ at the same time. That or the AI needs work, but that goes without saying. Units also need the ability to buy their way into the faith, because right now it's a micromanagement nightmare to train units that get any benefits from Esus. There also needs to be a proper assassin hero for them. The Trojan Horse just doesn't cut it. I've said it before, but you could use potions/poisons to substitute for divine spells and have them cost gold to stay within the religions flavor of paying for miracles. FF at least gives us some nice Esus-centric promotions, but the Council still needs an overhaul.

 

[MrUnderhill]

If I can find a way to make forest-building available with FoL, that would be easier...

But I duno how to do that.

You can either make new build options in the XML and give them to certain units (that's how it was done pre-BTS when the Elven Worker was a UU) or add a line or two to the existing options so that they don't remove the forest if you have a certain tech (Hidden Paths is a good one since you have to follow FoL to use it).

 

[deadliver]

actually I agree with that idea (and disagree with you) I think making forest-building enabled for FoL civs would be a good idea, and it would make it an actual worthwhile religion for non elves. Elves could still retain the ability to build in forests even when NOT Following FoL. Also, both elven factions have plenty of their own unique stuff (flurries, mmm) that making the forest-building more available wouldn't hurt.

Perhaps elven workers could get a workrate bonus in forests, so that they'd still be better at it.



looked at the Guardian of Nature civic recently ?

Yeah I like this idea. Lets the elves go into other religions if they want *cough* Esus *cough*. Gibbon Goetia is okay, he just needs to be given the ability to convert a rival civ into a permanent ally somehow making his sacrifice worthwhile.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Alright, I can do all the coding but I need help with the artwork. Anyone willing to contribute some art for the new heros/wonders/spells?

EDIT: Also, is a new FF version going to be released soon? I know a new FFH@ was just released about a week ago and I don't want to start coding .40 if another FF based on .41 is in the works.

 

[thadian]

i said AV is overpowered because once its discovered by the AI - EVERY AI CONVERTS TO IT, even Elohim.


i suppose thats another issue but when the AC goes from 12 to 60 in 4 turns because of the whole planet converting to Ashen Veil is a little annoying.

I would reccomend Fall Further AND FFH re-flavor what religions a civ is willing to accept. i think Malakim, Mazatl and Elohim for example - should rather die than convert to Ashen Veil no matter what.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

i said AV is overpowered because once its discovered by the AI - EVERY AI CONVERTS TO IT, even Elohim.


i suppose thats another issue but when the AC goes from 12 to 60 in 4 turns because of the whole planet converting to Ashen Veil is a little annoying.

I would reccomend Fall Further AND FFH re-flavor what religions a civ is willing to accept. i think Malakim, Mazatl and Elohim for example - should rather die than convert to Ashen Veil no matter what.

I disagree with that statement. In most of my games the only way that AV ever gets to spread is if I do it my self.
I only saw the demons sumoned once in about 10 games and that time I did it my self.

 

[thadian]

Octopus Overlords

* Add a civic that represents the OO's style of gaining insight through the poor. This is talked about in the lore, but is not really represented in-game. Possible research bonuses, coupled with negative effects from abusing the population in this form(unhappiness, lost production?).

Sac pop to rush beakers instead of hammers?

 

[Onionsoilder]

Sac pop to rush beakers instead of hammers?

I was thinking something along the lines of:

+1 In 3 Largest Cities
-15%
+10%
+20%
New Units start with +2 Experience Points

Seems to fit well with OO's theme. If anyone disagrees, or has any other ideas, let them be known now.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I disagree, mainly becouse the -

does not realy fit the OO who are one of the few religions that have been stated to be completely OK with slavery.

And once that is away, we basicly have the Asilum.

 

[Rutee]

Regarding FoL civs building improvements in Ancient Forests, perhaps they should be given the ability to make lesser versions of various improvements? I think the Elves should keep the best stuff, but since they're getting bonus food and the forest itself anyway, maybe they should get improvements that, while not as good as say, a cottage or a farm, are around the same as either when combined with the ancient forest's food and hammers? Or even better, due to the time delay and microing required to terraform lands to forests?

of course, that's probably easier said then done.. but I'm seriously dying for a decent economic alternative to Agri/Ari that doesn't involve playing the Elven Civs (I like them fine, but I don't want to play one ALL THE TIME).

I disagree, mainly becouse the - does not realy fit the OO who are one of the few religions that have been stated to be completely OK with slavery.

They do different things with those slaves though, so it's not necessarily efficient for the ever-so-vague concept of hammers.

 

[Onionsoilder]

They do different things with those slaves though, so it's not necessarily efficient for the ever-so-vague concept of hammers.

That's what I was thinking. People who are kept for the purpose of receiving input from the Overlords can't work. This work is lost in the form of hammers, but regained in the form of beakers and culture from the Overlord's knowledge. Plus you can always use Slavery in conjunction with this civic, as it will likely be an Economic one and not a Labor one.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Alright, I finished the first version of this.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322874