Leyrann
Deity
You literally necro'd a 2 year old thread for this.
How does Game Speed affect Balance
- Thread starter GrumboMumbo
- Start date
You literally necro'd a 2 year old thread for this.
aieeegrunt
Emperor
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Online speed, because I many other things competing for my leisure time
So? Is it not relevant anymore or what?
Leyrann
Deity
No, asking someone a question about something they said two years ago when they aren't even active on the forum anymore (at least not here; I haven't seen them since I returned myself two months ago, despite remembering them as a daily poster) is not relevant. Even if they were still active, there's a good chance they don't have a clue anymore what they were talking about all the way back then.
And if you want to create a new discussion about game speed balance, that's what "create new thread" is for.
Well, I don't want to start a new thread on a topic that was already discussed, because nothing really changed regarding this since these discussion (or was it?), so arguments given 2 years ago should still be relevant.
And no, I don't follow his forum activity, or anyones for that matter. What a weird expectation.
And no, I don't follow his forum activity, or anyones for that matter. What a weird expectation.
Leyrann
Deity
Usually, it is considered good forum etiquette to not necro threads (not specific to this forum, just on forums in general), as it clogs up the first page with long-dead discussions. Most people do not really mind if someone has something directly relevant to the topic of the thread to add (though I will say that I personally think it's better to start a new thread even in those circumstances), but that's not what you did. You asked a personal opinion of someone who had posted in the thread before it died. Whether or not they are still active is of secondary concern here, the issue is quite simply that a response aimed purely at a previous message in the thread, rather than the thread's topic, which on top of that asks for a personal opinion rather than something anyone can respond to, is a frankly useless necro.
If you want to discuss how game speed affects balance, there's two ways to go about it. The first is to just make a new thread about it. Not a single mod in the entire world is going to complain that a thread on the topic already exists if that thread has been dead and buried for two years. The second, and in my opinion worse, option is to post in this thread with general questions, not tied to the previous discussion that everyone has forgotten, but things people can respond to without having to read the entire thread before it.
Anyway, I'm going to leave it at this because another part of bad forum etiquette is to go on long off-topic tangents, plus I imagine the moderators won't appreciate an endless discussion about whether someone broke forum etiquette but not forum rules.
Guys, chill 
.
Leyrann is right, we're totally fine if you want to re-discuss an old topic, and this thread here isn't extensive or long in any way. BUT on the other hand, a 2 years old thread isn't that old. And as CppMaster points out, not everyone follows everything around, it's okay to also respond to an old thread once in a while, unless it's really too old.
So chill, and please proceed with the actual discussion
.
(else I need to get my moderator hat...)
.Leyrann is right, we're totally fine if you want to re-discuss an old topic, and this thread here isn't extensive or long in any way. BUT on the other hand, a 2 years old thread isn't that old. And as CppMaster points out, not everyone follows everything around, it's okay to also respond to an old thread once in a while, unless it's really too old.
So chill, and please proceed with the actual discussion
.(else I need to get my moderator hat...)
Ok, so as for the topic, I thought that it's pretty obvious that standard speed would be the most balanced, assuming that developers designed the game around this speed. That's why I was surprised that someone thinks otherwise, so I wanted to know their reasoning, because maybe I'm missing something.
GrumboMumbo
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A few posts further up Lily Lancer says that he thinks Online speed is most balanced for AI Combat and World Era. And I seem to recall generally reading his posts back then, he had issues of balance with the slower speeds. I think it mostly comes down to how good you are at the game and how much you are able to exploit the AIs shortfalls, and this is easier to do on slower speeds. I think Lily was trying to say that when he plays on Standard speed he wins way quicker (in terms of world age) and that doesn't feel balanced, but probably most people wouldn't run into that situation.
Obviously I had already made my opinions further up the thread, and I agree with Lily that Online is probably more balanced, but it really depends what Lens you are looking through and how you like to enjoy the game. Also, for what it's worth Online speed does have a bit of an issue with great person projects... iirc the production values for city projects does scale with speed but the amount of great person points you get for completing a project are always the same no matter what speed the game is set on. Meaning that Online speed is way stronger for doing city projects (maybe this warps the balance? I dunno), but I very much doubt this is an intentional design decision by firaxis, which means they haven't really thought too hard about game speed balance at all.
In my opinion, if you are looking for game balance, civ6 is not a good place to look.
aieeegrunt
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I totally agree, and I would also add that it makes for far less dead turns where nothing is happening
But warring is much weaker on Online speed, because movement and numbers if attack per turn don't scale which IMHO is the biggest issue.
GrumboMumbo
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Yes warring is weaker on online speed, therefore much harder to gain advantage over the AI. And I think Lily wanted this more challenging version of war in his games, so he is forced to do more empire building rather than always war.
It depends how you see the game, what you are looking for in terms of balance. For me, I would love it if all the victory conditions were better balanced (I'm looking at you Diplomacy!), but maybe others think that isn't necessary.
So when Lily says online speed is more balanced for war, he means war vs empire building and the opportunity costs of doing other things than just war, thus giving himself a more varied experience each game. But I agree with you CppMaster, war and unit development works way better on the slower speeds as units don't become irrelevant so quickly and therefore war has more layers of strategy. So the question is, which version of balance matters to you more? If you don't feel normal speed narrows the overall game choices and you prefer the deeper layers of strategy in war, then maybe even epic or marathon speed would be a better fit? It's going to be different for everyone I think.
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