How does New Japan perform ?

[Magean]

Hi, I'd like to what people think about New Japan - both as a player choice, and as an AI.
I'm looking forward playing it, but I have no time ATM to playtest myself.

Are Samurai destroyed when building a shipping boat ? Are there still boats to build when Samurai become available ? Is the new culture bonus really a boon ? Is Nobunaga still an overall weak AI ? etc.

Thanks in advance

 

[Mustakrakish]

I think that right now (pre-patch) Japan is one of the weakest civs. Everytime I rolled Japan, the game was doomed from the beginning. And I think the biggest factor to that was not weak UA, but weak starting position. They get the worst starting position. So I think there's a good reason they're changing the starting preference to coast.

I don't think I will be using samurai to fish much. But the culure bonus is a nice little bonus to have. Nothing game changing, but a nice touch. It will be a more pleasant civ to play for me. Certainly not at the bottom of the list for me anymore, but not in the top either.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I can't say I would put it past me to use the Sammurai to fish (as I understand it, you don't lose the ability), but I'm certainly not going to use it as a strategy. More likely, it'll be a newly conquered city (or, if I have bad luck, a recently destroyed fishing boat) and I'll happen to have a Sammurai nearby. But I doubt I'm going to wait that long to get fishing boats, so it's not my main way of going about it.

However, Sammurai don't get weaker for having this ability, so I'm not going to complain about the edition.

 

[Securion]

The new culture bonus is negligible and Samurais building fishing boats are just too late to be of any real use.
Not very good.

Fix; Let workers build fishing boats as well, and let internal trading routes give culture? Or just simply more culture from Fish, Whales and Crab?
And boost the samurai more.

 

[bonafide11]

I think New Japan is very underrated. If you get samuraii early enough, there's still enough places where you will want to build fishing boats (and even new cities), and they can get your cities growing from food and culture early. They work better than expected. Increased culture in the early game is a huge benefit. You're almost guaranteed to get fishing boats in your capital with a coastal bias start. Plus coastal bias starts are a huge benefit as it is since you can use cargo trade routes. I think people need to play with New Japan before sleeping on them.

Besides, the ability to attack at full strength with injured units helps your military out quite a bit, and people seem to forget about that ability just because it's not too exciting.

 

[S.O.T MAHak]

If you play on deity or multiplayer where there is a very good chance that your fishing boats will be destroyed during wars then the samurai will come in handy so you don't have to waste hammers on new boats once the war is over.

 

[fwootamala]

Ocean starts do not guarantee ocean resources. However, if you DO get a couple (crab or whatever), and say a fish, then you're essentially starting with an extra monument (if you take the time to make the fishing boats early in your build order) . That can be significant early, but wanes as time goes on. Though I noticed that when you add in 'goddess of the sea' and lighthouses / seaports, and it feels like you've reconstructed the Great Barrier reef off of your city.

 

[Matthew.]

I like the new zero. They have a terrible reputation to fight against (often considered the worst UU in the game), but the no oil change is significant. It basically allows for Japan to field an endless number of anti-air aircraft, and when combined with carriers, should have a huge edge over their opponents.

At the very least, it allows you to push forward with upgraded samurai and artillery while being able to ignore oil, and keep your ground troops protected from enemy bomber spam. You do need to get through Flight up to Radar, but some careful late-game GS bulbs make it a non-issue and Radar is an important tech anyway--especially if going for rocket artillery.

 

[apocalypse105]

Don't see why they buffed japan bushido is allready extremly powerfull

 

[Louis XXIV]

Bushido is weaker than it was in vanilla simply because units are naturally hard to kill through the higher HP. Because of that, Japan was weaker than in vanilla.

 

[Matthew.]

The percentage change was different too, wasn't it? Also, sword rushes were more viable in vanilla.

Either way, it did work out in game differently. Being able to drop a 8 health unit with a 1 health samurai was indeed powerful.

 

[Babri]

Don't see why they buffed japan bushido is allready extremly powerfull

FYI it was powerful in vanilla ciV but it has been heavily nerfed since G&K and now it is a bit on the weak side, considering the other unique aspects of Japan.

On topic: I think the changes are minor. Zero still sounds 'zero'. I would have preferred if they completely replaced it. Oh well, at least Japan is getting few buffs, something is better than nothing!

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I only played a partial game with Japan, but I found the fishing boat culture to be quite nice. It helped me to expand territories quickly and I got social policies fast too. I used God of the Sea and lighthouses and my sea resource tiles became very nice. Japan works sort of like Old France now, except the culture bonus doesn't stop arbitrarily.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I still reckon the best fix for Japan would have been to replace The Zero (one of the crappest UU) with a Dojo (Barracks replacement) UB, that grants a culture bonus from sources of iron & horses. Please note-that was *not* my idea, but a game mod that I play the game with!

Aussie.

 

[killmeplease]

more culture is alwayss good, in your new cities you can skip monument for a while, this means faster city development. also how'd you get all those tiles? it takes time for borders to grow in new cities, and if you build a city next to a rival or CS it can steal some good tiles from you. more free culture is very good i think.

 

[Vikings Diehard]

I can't say I would put it past me to use the Sammurai to fish (as I understand it, you don't lose the ability).

The ability to create fishing boats does not carry through on upgrade to rifleman. However a couple good points are that the ability takes only a single turn and does not consume the samurai so it might be worthwhile to keep 1-2 samurai not upgraded if you plan to conquer or settle new cities after they become obsolete.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I think I will love playing as Japan after the patch is released for mac. Perhaps the samurai come in to play a bit to late since most likely I would go for the upper tech tree first. But I usually build just 2 cities at first, 3 if there is good room and some key resources I need to grab. But then I usually expand a bit and since the samurai most likely will be the one escorting the settler he can build the new cities work boats, and they usually take some time to build for a new city. And if the God of the sea pantheon have been chosen then that new city will be up and running much quicker. I like the idea of the culture for sea resources as well. As already mentioned, it gives Japan a stronger defence against influence from the out side world something that is historically correct.

 

[kamikazees]

I recently finished a cultural game as Japan on immortal with the new patch. I used a 4-city tradition strategy.

I started on the coast, but moved inland because there were no sea resources and there was a nice hill with a mountain bordering it. I managed to settle my 4th city on an island with 2 atols and 2 fish. Having that early culture was really nice.

The samurai was not useful because I was isolated and, unfortunately, never had a war. The same with the zero, although I think both would have been used had I been on either of the main continents (Zulu took over 1 continent, while Greece and Assyria wiped out the other). All 3 were starting to get air forces up when I won, and I had no oil, so frankly the zero would have been great.

 

[ToodleElNoodos]

I found it pretty good. It's not spectacular, but it sorta makes expanding out a little easier during the Renaissance period. While your Settler is escorted by a Samurai, you can found a city and immediately start improving. It's not bad, but not exceptional either. You still have to research Samurais and Sailing.

I think that the Bushido change is actually good. The culture gain may not look like much, but it does help with border growth (extremely helpful with coastal civs), tourism defense (now that it's much more significant), and earlier social policies.

I can't complain either about having infinite Zeros for my infinite carriers. ^_^

 

[Louis XXIV]

The ability to create fishing boats does not carry through on upgrade to rifleman. However a couple good points are that the ability takes only a single turn and does not consume the samurai so it might be worthwhile to keep 1-2 samurai not upgraded if you plan to conquer or settle new cities after they become obsolete.

Yeah, I wasn't reading what I wrote. I meant "don't lose the Samurai."