How Libertarian Are You?

[Leoreth]

Maybe with a liberal use of the ignore button I could. Or at least pretend that I can

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Maybe with a liberal use of the ignore button I could. Or at least pretend that I can

Hahaha I've been using that as well. Problem is, other people continue to quote him and his quotes still show up even though he's on ignore.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The difference is that CEOs don't use force generally. They serve the public.

And what do politicians do? Politicians are elected and empowered by the public. That's the most basic principle of a republic. How you can claim to be a democrat and not understand that is beyond me.

By the way, CEOs don't serve the public, they serve their stockholders. Their job isn't to do what's best for the public, it's to deliver maximal profits to their shareholders. They are elected by their stockholders, but behave in an otherwise undemocratic manner. If CEOs and businessmen were as accountable to the public as politicians are, that would be socialist.

EDIT: Also, in the "businessmen don't use force" category, I submit the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkertons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Mine_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Creek-Cabin_Creek_strike_of_1912

 

[WindFish]

The difference is that CEOs don't use force generally. They serve the public.

Not according to Ford vs Dodge.

 

[kochman]

EDIT: Also, in the "businessmen don't use force" category, I submit the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkertons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Mine_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Creek-Cabin_Creek_strike_of_1912

It's 2012, for the record.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It's 2012, for the record.

At least you know how to read a calendar correctly. Maybe you can start reading posts at some point as well.

 

[kochman]

At least you know how to read a calendar correctly. Maybe you can start reading posts at some point as well.

Maybe if you'd post some relevant articles I'd spend more time on your posts.
If you're going to post CEO outrages from a century ago... perhaps some government outrages from this year or so?

 

[trader/warrior]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marikana_miners'_strike?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Maybe if you'd post some relevant articles I'd spend more time on your posts.
If you're going to post CEO outrages from a century ago... perhaps some government outrages from this year or so?

It's no longer possible for companies to get away with such explicitly violent solutions any more in our country. That doesn't mean they don't intimidate their workers in all sorts of ways and manipulate popular sentiment against unions, it just means Pinkertons aren't breaking up strikes with Tommy guns or assassinating local union-friendly sheriffs.

 

[Crezth]

@Owen: your post is like a bottle of fresh water in the desert that is this thread. Finally something substantiated and nuanced ... it was really interesting to read. It'd be a shame for this to get lost amidst the usual GW fanfare in this horrible thread, so I really suggest you start your own thread about it, should you want to continue it. Maybe some people even join in with equally elaborate opinions. I'd definitely read it at least.

While I agree so hardcore with the spirit of this post, do you really think if Owain made his own thread about rating congressmen, Dommy wouldn't barge in and start screeching his usual libertarian balderdash?

There's a reason every thread becomes about Dommy and his politics. He just can't resist making a scene.

 

[Leoreth]

You're all so cynical

 

[sophie]

You're all so cynical

Well I thought it was a good idea. I just might follow through with it later. If I have time. We'll see.

 

[Lord of Elves]

There's a reason every thread becomes about Dommy and his politics. He just can't resist making a scene.

Quoted for truth or whatever. Everything and anything in OT has become relevant to the glorious cause of the Bourgeouise Dictatorship since GW discovered libertarianism. I invite him to discuss something that is entirely separate of his apparent universal philosophy, as according to the questionnaire he posted, just about everything has to do with your views on whether or not the rich and able should be able to freely abuse anyone and everyone else.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I'm reconsidering letting him argue against me in that "argue from sides you normally don't" thread, just so that he can get exposure to new ways of thinking.

 

[GhostWriter16]

And what do politicians do? Politicians are elected and empowered by the public. That's the most basic principle of a republic. How you can claim to be a democrat and not understand that is beyond me.

By the way, CEOs don't serve the public, they serve their stockholders. Their job isn't to do what's best for the public, it's to deliver maximal profits to their shareholders. They are elected by their stockholders, but behave in an otherwise undemocratic manner. If CEOs and businessmen were as accountable to the public as politicians are, that would be socialist.

EDIT: Also, in the "businessmen don't use force" category, I submit the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkertons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Mine_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Creek-Cabin_Creek_strike_of_1912

The difference is that polticians use the "Popular mandate" of the majority to force the minority into things. That makes them almost always bad people. Businessmen do not generally force people to work for them or buy their products if they don't want to.

I'm reconsidering letting him argue against me in that "argue from sides you normally don't" thread, just so that he can get exposure to new ways of thinking.

Go for it.

 

[kochman]

Quoted for truth or whatever. Everything and anything in OT has become relevant to the glorious cause of the Bourgeouise Dictatorship since GW discovered libertarianism. I invite him to discuss something that is entirely separate of his apparent universal philosophy, as according to the questionnaire he posted, just about everything has to do with your views on whether or not the rich and able should be able to freely abuse anyone and everyone else.

As long as we're being completely cynical here... let me add, I don't think American football adds anything positive to the world.

 

[GhostWriter16]

He also opposed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, which would have allowed government and military forces to detain Americans citizens and others indefinitely without trial.

Glib responses aside, this is the kind of thing I was thinking about. IIRC 93% of the Senate voted for that bill. Which makes all of them despicable people who deserve to be voted out.

(I was kidding about there being 2 BTW, there were really just two that came to mind.)

Anyone who voted for the NDAA deserves to get voted out. No questions.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The difference is that polticians use the "Popular mandate" of the majority to force the minority into things. That makes them almost always bad people.

Ferchrissake sake, that's called democracy. What do you want, consensus on all things?

Businessmen do not generally force people to work for them or buy their products if they don't want to.

And politicians don't force people to live in the country, state, city, or county they govern, now do they?

Do you intend to actually address any of my points, or simply repeat and restate your own over and over again? I understand your position already. Now try and understand mine.

 

[Joecoolyo]

And what do politicians do? Politicians are elected and empowered by the public. That's the most basic principle of a republic. How you can claim to be a democrat and not understand that is beyond me.

By the way, CEOs don't serve the public, they serve their stockholders. Their job isn't to do what's best for the public, it's to deliver maximal profits to their shareholders. They are elected by their stockholders, but behave in an otherwise undemocratic manner. If CEOs and businessmen were as accountable to the public as politicians are, that would be socialist.

EDIT: Also, in the "businessmen don't use force" category, I submit the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkertons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_Mine_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_Creek-Cabin_Creek_strike_of_1912

Wow, Cheezy pretty much word for word posted my response to Dommy. I'll just quote it again so I don't have to make my own post/quote dommy and continue the Dommynation of this thread.

 

[Crezth]

Ferchrissake sake, that's called democracy. What do you want, consensus on all things?

No, he wants no consensus on anything. He thinks people should adhere to libertarian principles (whether they like it or not), and to ensure that they do, advocates an autocracy run by an unflinching libertarian (he actually said this, I'm not exaggerating). He doesn't believe any unjust coercion can occur in such a society because he does not believe capitalism can create oppressive conditions. He rationalizes this by saying that every arrangement in a free market is fundamentally consensual, and thus no coercion can occur.