Leathaface
Emperor
Culture victory is my favourite victory condition and i'm playing on Immortal difficulty ATM. However I can see myself moving up to Deity in the next couple of months.
[R&F] How much tourism is needed to win on Deity?
- Thread starter Leathaface
- Start date
In industrial era usually 1000-2000... Gets the job done under t200 usually.
Assuming you actually want to catch the culture leader fair and square without wiping their civ out...
If earlier eras you probably need less.
You will need more if some civs have been wiped out. If granada is in the game and a civ with a big empire has suzereinty, it will take much longer as the AI goes crazy with alcazars.
Assuming you actually want to catch the culture leader fair and square without wiping their civ out...
If earlier eras you probably need less.
You will need more if some civs have been wiped out. If granada is in the game and a civ with a big empire has suzereinty, it will take much longer as the AI goes crazy with alcazars.
Disgustipated
Deity
cultural victory in BC times doesn't make sense. haha. Cool to see though. I don't know how to get a cultural victory that early, the AI is always building theater squares by that point. But I usually don't pick Reyna up until later.
Trav'ling Canuck
Deity
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- Feb 7, 2018
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- 3,406
I'm not sure it's going to be significantly different from the amount of tourism you require for Immortal. From the games I've observed, the AI doesn't tend to generate a lot of tourism until about T180 to T200, then it ramps up. At that point, the AI's will have pretty much the same number of cities on Deity as on Immortal, I would guess, and so are likely to be generating about the same amount of domestic tourists.
How many you need will depend on who's in the game. Some civs generate double the amount of tourism of others.
I've been keeping notes during my games of how much foreign/domestic tourism the top 2 or 3 civs had every 20 turns, but I didn't keep that data. I was only using it to comment (to the extent relevant) on the culture leaders at game end. It never occurred to me that people would want to know how much tourism the AI had at various points in the game. When I get back to that computer, I'll see if I have any notes that I didn't delete after writing up the game end summaries.
How many you need will depend on who's in the game. Some civs generate double the amount of tourism of others.
I've been keeping notes during my games of how much foreign/domestic tourism the top 2 or 3 civs had every 20 turns, but I didn't keep that data. I was only using it to comment (to the extent relevant) on the culture leaders at game end. It never occurred to me that people would want to know how much tourism the AI had at various points in the game. When I get back to that computer, I'll see if I have any notes that I didn't delete after writing up the game end summaries.
MetalmindStats
Chieftain
In my experience, if you can reach 1,000 tourism by turn 250 on standard speed, you will win a culture victory before turn 300. That's almost always quick enough to outpace science wins by Deity AIs. I generally find that the top AI's domestic tourism is in the range of 250-450 when I win.
For what it's worth, my usual strategy to do so and thus gain consistent culture wins before turn 300 on Deity is to more-or-less beeline Drama and Poetry, then focus on building Theater Squares and their buildings first and foremost in my cities. Combined with Literary Tradition, I usually find myself recruiting as much as half of the cultural great people this way. Their works, later combined with artifacts, tend to be the main source of my tourism. With as many great people as you'll wind up recruiting this way, you will generally want to have at least 10-12 cities with developed theatrical infrastructure by the late game, as well as building later-game wonders with great work slots. Nonetheless, this general strategy has worked well for me even with my consistently peaceful gameplay and 7-9 cities, and I'm nowhere near an optimal player.
For what it's worth, my usual strategy to do so and thus gain consistent culture wins before turn 300 on Deity is to more-or-less beeline Drama and Poetry, then focus on building Theater Squares and their buildings first and foremost in my cities. Combined with Literary Tradition, I usually find myself recruiting as much as half of the cultural great people this way. Their works, later combined with artifacts, tend to be the main source of my tourism. With as many great people as you'll wind up recruiting this way, you will generally want to have at least 10-12 cities with developed theatrical infrastructure by the late game, as well as building later-game wonders with great work slots. Nonetheless, this general strategy has worked well for me even with my consistently peaceful gameplay and 7-9 cities, and I'm nowhere near an optimal player.
Mr. Shadows
Nomad of the time streams
How many Theater Squares did you need? Or maybe a better question is how many writer slots did you need? How many Lavra? I'm guessing you built the GL for the writing slots. Did you faith buy many writers? How about Theater projects? After my last game I see how it works. The ai just doesn't have much cultural defense that early. Do you have to meet all the other civs?
Boyan_Sun
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2017
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- 256
Almost in every city. You need all the 14 early (classic and medieval) writings so at least 14 slots.
This game combines relics play, must often purchase apostles, so faith can not be used to buy GP. Also Lavra in early city for relic slots.
No theater projects. Even so, AI cannot get any early writers at all.
You must meet all other civs as quick as possible, and open borders/trade routes as much as possible.
Apadana, GL, even Basil built in capital, for Reyna combo.
Detail thoughts: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-of-the-week-kongo.634047/page-3#post-15166997
Leathaface
Emperor
When do you place Campuses? I find having a good amount of Science to be critical in higher difficulties.
MetalmindStats
Chieftain
Yes, you're right, having a good flow of science is definitely important for even the most peaceful cultural victories on higher difficulties. In general, the quicker you reach first Printing, then Computers, the quicker you win.
As for Campuses, they tend to be my first district built in my first few cities, before discovering Drama and Poetry. Mountains and, to a lesser extent, rainforests are of course a great help for getting early science up, and if those are missing, I try to cluster districts around the capital's Campus in particular for an enhanced adjacency bonus.
Tried a few more tests, to win in Renaissance pre-computers (quite tough for me on deity, actually, assuming the standard starts) shocking only requires ~500 or so tourism. Usually this is limited to reliquaries strategy as Kongo + Basil combo. The thing is to get all those relics before AI reach enlightenment--Kongo can easily do that assuming he gets the right religion... another option probably Khmer and then instead of founding and spreading your own religion, adopt the religion with reliquaries instead (but even missionaries will start to cost so much faith once you buy your 8th one or so). Other civs, aside from Kandy gimmicks probably do not generate enough faith to get the critical amount of relics (~14 - 15 x 32 tourism each = ~500). For the most part, great works alone without computers do not cut it at ~t 120 - 150
Trav'ling Canuck
Deity
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- Feb 7, 2018
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Unfortunately, I didn't keep any of my past notes. Wish I had considered this question, as I could have provided better data by now.
Anyway, I did keep the information for my latest game, and will try to do so for future games. Here are the highest (2nd highest) amounts of domestic tourists generated by Deity AI civs (standard speed, standard size, continents) in my test game 11:
T160 96 (83 was next highest total)
T180 115 (113)
T200 147 (134)
T220 179 (165)
T240 222 (207)
T260 276 (271)
T280 452 (327)
T300 567 (367)
Note: these numbers are low. In other games I've observed, there's been a cultural leader with tourist numbers much higher than these. While these are the foreign tourists that would have been required for victory in this particular example, I don't think it was representative. I don't, unfortunately, have the data for this, but I'm quite certain that an average game would require many more foreign tourists than this particular game would have required.
Agreed the numbers seem low. At t180-200 usually its 200+ tourists if Persia Or China is in the game with an average empire. Their UIs make them generate very high culture despite having few theatres
Trav'ling Canuck
Deity
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Gorgo's generated the most early tourism that I've seen, but unfortunately I didn't record her totals in the two games with her that I've observed. I just know (a) it was a lot, like on a factor 3x to 5x over other civs, and (b) it was all domestic tourism, not foreign tourism, i.e. she was no threat to win a cultural victory, but she was a big obstacle to overcome to win an early cultural victory yourself.
Copper_47
Chieftain
As @Boyan_Sun said, in this edition, the fastest and most efficient CV strategy is "salted fish CV", evolution of "pure books CV".
Most tourism from books, others from relics and wonders, but it needs goddess of the harvest and a lot of overflow, or will win much slower. Using this strategy we can gain CV in around 100 turns.
In this strategy, we need 3 Campuses in first 3 cities, Theater Squares in almost every cities to gain Printing-Reyna combo earlier, and Holy Sites for reliquary and relic slot. What’s more, we need wonders like Pyramids, Oracle (in non-capital), Apadana, Great Library (in capital).
Some screenshots (Personal best: T76, Kongo, deity all standard).
Most tourism from books, others from relics and wonders, but it needs goddess of the harvest and a lot of overflow, or will win much slower. Using this strategy we can gain CV in around 100 turns.
In this strategy, we need 3 Campuses in first 3 cities, Theater Squares in almost every cities to gain Printing-Reyna combo earlier, and Holy Sites for reliquary and relic slot. What’s more, we need wonders like Pyramids, Oracle (in non-capital), Apadana, Great Library (in capital).
Some screenshots (Personal best: T76, Kongo, deity all standard).
Bitterman
Warlord
I've played a game not much ago in which I had something around 2000 tourism if I recall correct (at least 1500) and could not win. Persia went absolutely insane with Pairidaezas and was capable of resisting me until Spain won by science.
It was on emperor, but AI was a little bit modded so it had more or less +50% culture and even more science I think.
It was on emperor, but AI was a little bit modded so it had more or less +50% culture and even more science I think.
Copper_47
Chieftain
It was firstly put forward by @Rogue-star on Feb 26th.
After that, my Chinese friends attempted it for a month, so the strategy was finally perfected at the end of March.
Ive seen Gorgo (who had conquered a civ and a half) go up to 600+ domestic tourists in a deity game before...(plenty of culture CS that game and she had plenty of envoys from 20 acropolises).
Usually though, Greece gets scary only when multiple culture CS are in the game (most of the time they die before this becomes a factor thanks to deity AI's penchant for killing them in the ancient era). Persia maybe not as extreme, but he needs no CS to generate culture and if he gets to moon landing there is no way to catch him (but then Id have to ask why you did not win way before then)
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