How often do you win Lib but still lose the game? (IMM Pericles start inside)

[King Pluto]

I just played a game, IMM/Standard/Normal as Pericles on a Fractal map in which I did exactly what the title states: I won Lib (and built the Taj too) but found myself in a losing position soon after. If you don't want to read about my game or shadow it, the real point of this thread is finding out how often this happens to you higher-level players? I win more than half my IMM starts, but for whatever reason I stalled badly on this one despite thinking I'd done a good job of recovering from a mediocre start. The fact that I was in what I felt to be a very winnable spot with a strong leader made this even tougher to swallow.

I've attached the starting save in case anyone wants to give it a try and do better than I did. Start is shown below.

Spoiler :

Spoiler for my game description:

Spoiler :

You start on a continent with Monty and Justinian. In my game, they both founded early religions and were at each other all game. I sided with Monty because he directly bordered me, and luckily he never DOW'd me. I reached for the Oasis spot for a Buro capitol, grabbed the Marble site, and built the Great Library and got the Music GA. I was getting destroyed tech-wise, but Philo+GLib let me back in. During a GA, I got Scientists for Paper->2x Education-> Lib bulbs and took Nationalism a little before 900 AD, finding myself suddenly well ahead of Monty and Justinian. Teched to MilTrad and whipped a load of Curis. I swept Monty pretty quickly, but I bogged down around here. I don't know if I over-built troops (I was still less powerful than Justinian), but my tech rate sagged and I lost the Econ GM, the Communism GSpy, and Physics. The other continent came around with Mansa and his vassal Boudica, along with Elizabeth (I didn't stick around to meet the last AI) and they were well ahead of me. By the time I was going on Justinian, he had magic rifles and everyone else was killing me in tech thanks to MM and Lizzy trading everything in sight. I quit at this point, though I admit it might have been salvageable. Everyone had Comm/Physics/Democracy/Rifling, so I don't know how I would have dug out of it exactly.

My mistake might have been shooting for the Communism GSpy for another GA instead of going Rifling to ensure military superiority, but the other continent was humming along that part of the tech tree despite my Lib win. I think MM must have been right on my tail.

I know that not every IMM start is winnable, but I figured I had this game in the bag with the tried and true Lib/Taj duo. EMP/IMM/DEITY players, how often does this happen to you as well?

 

[lymond]

Lib>Taj>What? Do you have a plan? Not reading the spoiler in case I try this one, although that start looks lame.

I win most games that I go for a Lib, but a loss can happen now and then in tough situations. Of course, I don't complete many games, but play to a point where it's clearly won.

edit: that start really is gawd awful, although there's some potential with a move

 

[King Pluto]

Yeah, the start was bad, but I'm comfortable enough on Immortal now that I don't regen often. I settled in place. I checked the coast for seafood first and hoped for something hidden, but what it was could have been better.

I'm guessing you read the spoiler, so you know I did have a plan (though I'm sure I could have executed better). I'd like to think that it was a combination of a tough situation and some small misplays, because I don't think the map helped with the AI situations. I know the usual approach is use Lib to leverage a victory, so I dunno how often other players actually fail at that, despite a fairly good plan.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Very rarely, I win more after losing Lib than I do losing after winning Lib. If you win Lib you should know how you are going to use it to win the game by that point.

 

[GKey]

Plain cow and plain hill ship? Really, this is all food you have there?

 

[Riflin'Joe]

From your description I wonder if going culture was possible (probably after dealing with Monty first)?

 

[TiglathPileser]

It can happen on the highest levels, obviously moreso on deity. Sometimes your land is so bad (eg brown with no rivers or resources) that even if you can somehow bulb and trade your way to lib, you don't have enough to leverage it, even with good play. For example, to win the race you could be forced to take a relatively cheap tech like nationalism or chemistry, and without horses you'd still have to tech slowly towards steel or rifling; plus then producing enough troops quickly once you get there could be tricky before the AIs get rifling and wall you.

 

[Htadus]

Very rarely, I win more after losing Lib than I do losing after winning Lib. If you win Lib you should know how you are going to use it to win the game by that point.

This is my experience as well. Due to my inattentiveness, I tend to lose the Lib race at times. This is usually because I am trying to delay Lib and get something like Assembly line. But loosing Lib does not equate to loosing the game. What really matter is what the end game plan is? Is it a breakout with 4-6 cities or easy win via 10-12 city empire....also how early the wars take place makes a huge differance.

There are times in the game that AI are weak. Like when axes/sword/HA versus archers era or Maces/WE/cat/trebs versus LB era or Cuira vs LB/Musket eras. The difference is how fast you can put stacks togather to reach your war goals at a rapid rate. This also allow your economy to stay afloat since you are not paying unit supply cost during prolonged wars.

 

[Seraiel]

I've lost Lib in my last 5 games and all were wins before 1600 AD :> (and no, not only Marathon, the 1600 AD was Quick speed) .