How Precisely Do Mana Affinities Work?

[Andkat]

I'm rather confused with respect to how affinities worked. I initially assumed that every unit with an affinity required one of the relevant mana type to "activate" it, with no benefits from further mana exploitation. I.e., if a given unit has +3 Death affinity, then one Death Mana provides it with 3 extra strength points, with subsequent Death Mana having no impact.

However, in exploring these forums, I've encountered cases of players, say, securing 8 Air Mana nodes so as to cause the Rod of Winds to provide eight points of Air-based strength. So how exactly does this work? Does "Mana Type Combat +X" represent the amount of additional strength per mana node owned? I.e., does Meshabber of Dis gain +7 strength (or so, I don't have FFH2 on hand to verify) per Fire Mana? Or is there a difference between Elemental "Combat" and Elemental "Affinity" (again, I don't have the game on hand so I can't check the wording)? Or do they represent the initial gain from owning a mana node, with subsequent nodes merely adding +1 strength (i.e., Meshabber gains seven points of Fire-based strength for owning one Fire Node, but an additional Node only adds one point of Fire-based strength)? Can anyone explain the mechanics to me here?

Also, do Holy and Unholy combat have any relationship to elemental affinities? Does using "evil" (Entropy Mana, Death Mana) Mana have any impact on Unholy Combat? "Good" (Life, Spirit") on Holy Combat?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Meshabber has no affinity, only +6 Unholy and +6 Fire strength unrelated to the mana you own.




A unit with +1 affinity gets + 1*(#resource) strength, a unit with +2 affinity gets + 2*(#resource) strength, etc.


The type of strength is defined in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\Assets\XML\Terrain\CIV4BonusInfos.xml for each resource. In unmodded FfH, Ice and Water Mana use Cold damage, Sun and Fire Mana use Fire Damage, Death Mana uses Death Damage, Air Mana used Lightning Damage, Entropy Mana uses Unholy Damage, and nothing else has a damage type set so the other resources (not limited to mana; Gurid had +1 Banana Affinity) use untyped, "physical" damage like the unit's base strength.

 

[Skitters]

was it +3 death affinity or +3 death strength?

+3 death affinity would be +3 per mana, but there are also types of attack strength - ie death, holy, fire, poison which have a more variable affect when attacking an enemy to standard strength - so for example if a unit has immunity to death then the +3 would be nullified.

 

[HadesScorn]

Affinity is quite simple.

[Mana type] +[x].
For every source of that mana type your unit gets an additional +X power. So for a player with 3 Air nodes would get +3 Air Strength during combat.

Elemental affinity does not effect elemental combat, unless I have missed something. The number reflects an increase in unit strength. However, unit immunities can change their relative strength [similar to an immunity to poison].

Holy and Unholy combat strength modifiers have no relation to elemental affinities, simply reflecting an increase in base strength that can be effected by unit immunities. There are no un/holy affinities, though there is an affinity for each mana type.

Hope that answered your ?s

edit: dang, I *knew* i shouldn't try to beat MC to the punch.

 

[Bootsiuv]

Isn't there Holy Damage in unmodded FfH?

I can't remember due to the fact I've played Orbis for the past six weeks or so....

I always assumed Holy Damage came from sun mana...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Plenty of units deal holy damage, but no resource is set to have affinity of this damage type.

 

[Tasunke]

why couldn't holy damage come from life and/or spirit mana?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It could, but it doesn't. No unit has affinity for those mana types (except Djinni, who have affinity for all mana), so Kael just didn't bother setting it up like like.

Also, the greatest users of Spirit and Life magic, Laroth and Leucetios, were quite evil. While the fall of evil gods made it essentially impossible for the magic of their precepts to be used for good, the precepts of good gods are frequently corrupted by evil men. Holy damage was also described as being the rarest damage type when it was first introduced, so Kael may have wanted it to stay rare.


Personally, I really don't like the damage type being defined for the bonus rather than for the unit or promotion along with the numerical value of the affinity.

 

[Onionsoilder]

To the OP: You're confusing two different things here, affinities and combat.
Affinities provide combat, directly related to how much mana you have. A +1 Air Affinity gives +3 Lightning Combat if you own 3 Air Mana. The same +1 Air Affinity will provide +0 Lightning Combat if you own 0 Air Mana. By itself, an Affinity does not influence combat results in any way, it only grants Combat bonuses related to your mana supply. If you have no Air Mana, and Air Affinity will not make your unit stronger.

Combat comes from many sources. It can be obtained from promotions(Unholy Taint, Blessed), affinities(Chalid Astraken, Rod of Winds), or in some cases, the unit innately has the combat(Drown, Skeletons). Combat grants your unit additional strength pertaining to the element. A 6 unit with +2 Fire combat would function as an 8 unit in most cases. Against units that have the Weak to Fire effect, it would function as a 9 unit. Against units that have the Resistant to Fire promotion, it would function as a 7 unit.

The type of strength is defined in C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Fall from Heaven 2\Assets\XML\Terrain\CIV4BonusInfos.xml for each resource. In unmodded FfH, Ice and Water Mana use Cold damage, Sun and Fire Mana use Fire Damage, Death Mana uses Death Damage, Air Mana used Lightning Damage, Entropy Mana uses Unholy Damage, and nothing else has a damage type set so the other resources (not limited to mana; Gurid had +1 Banana Affinity) use untyped, "physical" damage like the unit's base strength.

Good that it's in the XML, I might have to tinker with that sometime.

 

[Tasunke]

Personally, I really don't like the damage type being defined for the bonus rather than for the unit or promotion along with the numerical value of the affinity.

So perhaps ... you would prefer for units like a Laroth/ Laroth ascended to get +1 death damage for every spirit mana under his control?

Cause yeah, I kinda see what you are saying that mana can be used for different ways/ different damage types even.

 

[Onionsoilder]

So perhaps ... you would prefer for units like a Laroth/ Laroth ascended to get +1 death damage for every spirit mana under his control?

Cause yeah, I kinda see what you are saying that mana can be used for different ways/ different damage types even.

Death Damage? So that means Angels would be resistant to units with Spirit Affinity, and Golems and such immune? Err...

I think Holy damage still works best. Granted, Laroth subverted it and used it selfishly, but then again look at Basium and his Angels - hardly the spitting image of kindness, but they get Holy damage. I think both Spirit and Life should give Holy damage. Even though they have been abused by archmages in the past, their current gods (Sirona and Sucellus) are still very Good. Law could possibly deal Holy damage as well, though Enchantment and Creation, if it ever gets added in, should be different(nonelemental magic damage?)

Earth, Body and Force could probably all remain as 'physical' damage. Nature could be turned into Poison, and Metamagic could possibly be the same nonelemental damage as Enchantment. Chaos and Dimentional could both be Unholy, and Shadow could be Poison/Unholy/Death. Mind would probably be nonelemental as well.

 

[Tasunke]

I wasn't talking about a universal mana affinity system, I was referring to the realization that each unit with a spirit affinity could have DIFFERENT damages, (other mana too, but spirit is an example)

For instance, a High Pope of Sirona could have +1 spirit affinity turned to HOLY damage, while the Laroth Ascended unit could have +3 spirit affinity turned to UNHOLY damage (or a mix of unholy and death)

Meanwhile, a Nature mana, depending on its user, could give either holy, poison, or death damage. (holy I was thinking of Arendel, imo)

If there was ever a mind affinity, it would most likely only give out unholy damage, however. Or you could make a new damage type called Mental damage, or Psychic damage (something corny) and then ONLY golems, elementals, and illusions would be immune, while demons and angels would probably be 10-20% resistant. Perhaps have it not affect siege as well, but catapult crews could still be affected by psychic attacks ...

 

[Onionsoilder]

I wasn't talking about a universal mana affinity system, I was referring to the realization that each unit with a spirit affinity could have DIFFERENT damages, (other mana too, but spirit is an example)
.

That would be cool, but it would be a lot of extra work for little benefit.