How should we proceed given the constitution is not complete?

[DaveShack]

Fellow citizens, your input is needed on a very important subject. This should mainly be considered informational discussion, as there may not be much choice, but I think it is important to get free-form thoughts on the matter.

Several Articles of the Constitution have failed ratification, yet we have a mandated start date of August 1. There are several ways we could proceed from this point. Hopefully to encourage lots of feedback, I'll hold my thoughts and see where the discussion goes.

 

[Cyc]

I fail to see a problem yet. Of course it might look different on Sunday.

 

[Comnenus]

Is it possible that the President can issue decrees, fill posts, etc as needed? Or was that option only available due to a change in a previous Constitution?

At any rate we will have to move forward, and if the above isn't possible, perhaps issues can be resolved in turnchats. Don't know though, since this is my first game.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

In this state of anarchy, I believe the President can be given some rope to deal with the intangibles that present themselves while said Articles are in limbo. Since no laws technically exist in certain categories, there are none to break.

For that alone, I am glad the people voted you into office, Dave, as I know you won't take advantage of this situation.

When can we expect a Creation Day thread to open?

 

[Comnenus]

In this state of anarchy...

That's why I support the Japanatica anarchy flag.

 

[Civman2004]

I think that the president has all powers outside the constitution, laws and policies. If he's acting unconsitutionally then the Judicial system can hammer him, if not, it's all fair game until the citizens get their act together and make laws.

 

[Comnenus]

I think that the president has all powers outside the constitution, laws and policies. If he's acting unconsitutionally then the Judicial system can hammer him, if not, it's all fair game until the citizens get their act together and make laws.

I don't think so. Check Article N. "...all actions...are presumed to be within the right of every citizen."

Nowhere in the Constitution do I see any similar article regarding the President.

 

[gert-janl]

Would it be an idea to have the judiciary adopt a temporary Constitution, after which an official constitution can be ratified by the citizenry?

 

[mhcarver]

couldn't we just hold a vote on wether or not the president can have to power to write an interim constitution that would have to be approved by the judiciary until the citizens ratify it, this would allow the game to proceed without to many problems

 

[blackheart]

Would it be an idea to have the judiciary adopt a temporary Constitution, after which an official constitution can be ratified by the citizenry?

I agree with this solution. Have the 3 judicials set up a temporary constitution before a standing constitution can be ratified, but I don't see much of a problem with this situation.

 

[Comnenus]

I agree with this solution. Have the 3 judicials set up a temporary constitution before a standing constitution can be ratified, but I don't see much of a problem with this situation.

I think this would run into strong opposition, but it may pass. If you think it is good then write up a proposal. It has to be discussed for 24 hours, and then it has to poll for 96 hours. That already puts us past 8/1.

 

[Black_Hole]

maybe we could just use the ratified articles and the mods can decide issues that arent in those articles

 

[DaveShack]

My thoughts on the matter are to use the ratified articles, and the generally most popular options of the non-ratified ones. Sparing and well-placed use of tradition will also be a good idea.

For example, even though the article which defines deputies was not passed, I would take a favorable view of runners-up being considered the deputies until a definitive law on the subject is passed. It's a possibility that someone needs to take an announced absense and have a deputy fill in, and we should have that situation covered.

One way to handle it would be to have the winners appoint the runner-up as the deputy -- then we are covered both ways...

Likewise, it appears that our capitol province governor may not technically be elected to a valid office, but we can go with the tradition and the prevailing opinion that the office and responsibilities of the governor will be the same as last game. Worst case, the governor will do the usual things (build queue, laborer allocation) and the president will take that informal advice and treat it like a valid instruction, provided WOTP is followed.

Bottom line, I think we proceed using common sense, and hurry up with the rest of the constitution and lower laws if any.

 

[KCCrusader]

I don't think we will have much of a problem regarding breaking the constitution. The only articles that are not ratified are Articles O and E. These articles deal with areas of the government that can easily be replaced by the common people. Article O deals with dividing the nation into provinces. This article will not be severely necissary until we gain enough cities to form a second province, unless possibly regarding the power of a governor, which is not discussed in the article anyway.

The other article, Article E established the congress and house of governors. Dealing with a lack of congress is simple, as we have been doing so all along so far. The people have been actively discussing and submitting laws and revisions to the constitution. I do not see why for the first few days, the citizens could revise and submit laws to the polls. If there is an issue with law congestion (too many submissions) simple delay the vote on some of the laws until the current polls are complete.

The solution to the lack of legislative branch may seem a bit open-ended, but I am confident we will not be lost in technicalities of submitting laws, should a need arise. Perhaps we should advance with the constitution in its current state, and should an issue comes up that needs an immediate law we could freeze game operations until the congress has convened.

Either way, the game should start on August 1, Article E+O or not.