How technologically advanced were the german "barbarians"?

[MajKira]

At least wikia states huns to originate in Asia

Origin
Xiongnu riders
Hunnic cauldron from the 5th century, found in Hungary.[7]

Traditionally, historians have associated the Huns who appeared on the borders of Europe in the 4th century with the Xiongnu who migrated out of the Mongolia region some three hundred years before. Due to the conflict with Han China, the Northern branch of the Xiongnu had retreated north-westward, which may have led to a migration through Eurasia and consequently possible continuity of these nomads with the Huns.[8] Although, this theory is still considered controversial and often heavily debated.[8] The evidence for this has not been definitive (see below), and the debates have continued ever since Joseph de Guignes first suggested it in the 18th century. Due to the lack of definitive evidence, a school of modern scholarship in the West instead uses an ethnogenesis approach in explaining the Huns' origin.

The cause of the Hunnic migration is thought to have been expansion of the Rouran, who had created a massive empire across the Asian continent in the mid-4th century, including the Tatar lands as well, which they took over from the Xianbei. It is supposed that this westward spread of Rouran power pushed the Huns into Europe over the years.[9][page needed]

 

[say1988]

I suggest you read your post again. It says there isn't that strong of evidence, it is controversial and WEstern Scholars don't agree with the theory.

 

[MajKira]

I suggest you read your post again. It says there isn't that strong of evidence, it is controversial and WEstern Scholars don't agree with the theory.

I c

 

[Masada]

It says may. Besides which, the whole notion of the Xiongnu as Huns basically hinges on the notion that the two shared infant head binding as a common custom and that therefore the two groups MUST be the same. The problem is that it isn't clear whether or not head binding was what the Huns actually did and it beggars belief that the Xiongnu could have dropped off the map for 300 years (!) and then for unknown reasons have reappeared in Europe. Moreover, we don't know what language the Huns or Xiongnu spoke; the former for instance has been claimed with confidence to be of Turkic, Germanic, Slavic and Uralic (!) origins. The other proposal is that it was the same as whatever the Xiongnu because... the Huns were Xiongnu; no other evidence required. That's the least of the problems. But it's symptomatic of the kind of issues weighing on the argument.

I suggest you read your post again. It says there isn't that strong of evidence, it is controversial and WEstern Scholars don't agree with the theory.

Some certainly do but it is controversial even among Chinese scholars, most of whom tend to poo-poo the notion.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Of course they Chinese disdain at the idea. It would mean they were saved from them by a woman.

Spoiler :

 

[MajKira]

Of course they Chinese disdain at the idea. It would mean they were saved from them by a woman.

Spoiler :

but Chinese liked to have a Empress too, in Civ5 Empress leader led chines emp

 

[Masada]

Wu Zetian historically has not been well liked in China; she's a curious choice to say the least.

 

[ParkCungHee]

That's par for the course for Civ in east Asia. At least they finally got around to putting Sejong in it.

 

[Veles]

...we don't know what language the Huns or Xiongnu spoke; the former for instance has been claimed with confidence to be of Turkic, Germanic, Slavic and Uralic (!) origins.

Interesting how the only surviving words of Hunnic language we know: strava, medos and kamos seem to be pretty obviously Slavic.

Strava is a 100% Slavic word for feast, held in honor of the dead before cremation. The name Stravinsky comes from it, btw.

Medos or Med is an old honey based beer-like drink, somewhat similiar to mead.

And Kamos, which Priscus tells is made of barley, could propbably be kvas, a drink popular to these day.

Some of thier recorded names, like Balamber (Balamir), Bleda (Buda), Rugila, Kreka, Tuldila (and Attila even) and couple of others, do sound like some kind of bastardized (Gothicised actually) Slavic names, really. It's subjective, of course, but I'm pretty sure anyone speaking Slavic natively knows what I'm talking about. There also are names that look pretty Turkic: Mundzuk, Boncuk, Dengizich.

So most likely it was a mish-mash of ethnoses, with early Slavic being lingua-franca or something like that, at least in Danube area. And we know that Germanic Goths also played a significant role, military-wise at least.

 

[Dachs]

I don't know if I like being referred to in such a way by so many of the participants in this thread. It's definitely weirding me out.

I'd offer a more substantive comment on what's going on but I'm emotionally exhausted and kinda wired right now

 

[MajKira]

Some of thier recorded names, like Balamber (Balamir), Bleda (Buda), Rugila, Kreka, Tuldila (and Attila even) and couple of others, do sound like some kind of bastardized (Gothicised actually) Slavic names, really. It's subjective, of course, but I'm pretty sure anyone speaking Slavic natively knows what I'm talking about. There also are names that look pretty Turkic: Mundzuk, Boncuk, Dengizich.

Turkic has much to do with mongolic:
reference
The Mongolic languages are a group of languages spoken in East-Central Asia, mostly in Mongolia and surrounding areas plus in Kalmykia. The best-known member of this language family, Mongolian, is the primary language of most of the residents of Mongolia and the Mongolian residents of Inner Mongolia, China with an estimated 5.2 million speakers.[1] Mongolic is sometimes grouped with Turkic, Tungusic and possibly Korean and Japonic as part of the larger Altaic family.[2]

reference:
The idea that the Turkic, Mongolic, and Tungusic languages are each others' closest relatives was allegedly first published in 1730 by Philip Johan von Strahlenberg, a Swedish officer who traveled in the eastern Russian Empire...........

reference:
Altaic is a proposed language family that includes the Turkic, Mongolic, Tungusic, and Japonic language families and the Korean language.[1]

reference:
The Turkic migration as defined in this article was the expansion of the Turkic peoples across most of Central Asia into Europe and the Middle East between the 6th and 11th centuries AD (the Early Middle Ages). Tribes less certainly identified as Turkic began their expansion centuries earlier as the predominant element of the Huns. Their prehistoric point of origin was the hypothetical Proto-Turkic region of the Far East including North China and Inner Mongolia.

reference:
Although the phonetic evidence is inconclusive, new results from Central Asia might shift the balance in favor of a political and cultural link between the Xiongnu and the Huns. The Central Asian sources of the 4th century translated in both direction Xiongnu by Huns...............

reference:
Names "Xiongnu" and "Hun"
Pronunciation of 匈
Source: http://starling.rinet.ru
Preclassic Old Chinese: sŋoŋ
Classic Old Chinese: [ŋ̊oŋ]
Postclassic Old Chinese: hoŋ
Middle Chinese: xöuŋ
Modern Cantonese: [hʊ́ŋ]
Modern Mandarin: [ɕʊ́ŋ]
Modern Sino-Korean: [hɯŋ]
Modern Sino-Japanese: [kjoː]
Modern Sino-Vietnamese: [huŋ]
Location of Xiongnu and other steppe nations in 300 AD.

The supposed sound of the first character has a clear similarity with the name "Hun" in European languages. Whether this is evidence of kinship or mere coincidence is hard to tell. It could lend credence to the theory that the Huns were in fact descendants of the Northern Xiongnu who migrated westward, or that the Huns were using a name borrowed from the Northern Xiongnu, or that these Xiongnu made up part of the Hun confederation. As in the case of the Rouran with the Avars, ......................

 

[MajKira]

Yaay came across something more conclusive by researching the net:
http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/medieval/history/earlymiddle/huns.htm

Spoiler :

The Huns probably came from western China, where they were known as the Xiong-nu. They may have been part of the group of Turkic people (some of whom later became the Ottomans). They lived in northern China during the Han Dynasty (200-1 BC). Then they seem to have decided to leave China and look for a better place to live. They divided into two groups, a small group and a big group. The small group went south, towards India. But the main group went north-west to Siberia.

These Xiongnu, or Huns , gradually crossed Russia. Like the Persians and the Parthians before them, they may have been driven to move on by bad weather in Siberia, which left them without enough grass for their cows to eat. By 350 AD the Huns were already crossing the steppes toward Europe, pushing the Scythians before them. Various Germanic groups, like the Visigoths and the Ostrogoths, were in turn pushed by the Scythians, and tried to get into the Roman Empire where they might find safety. By 378 AD, for example, the Visigoths were desperate enough to fight and win the battle of Adrianople, which moved them into the Roman Empire.

By the early 400s AD, the Huns had learned something about Roman ways, and had a very strong king named Attila. Sometimes the Romans hired the Huns to fight for them, as part of the Roman army. In the 420s and 430s, the Huns helped the Romans to fight the Visigoths. Some Roman men, like the future general Aetius (ah-AY-shuss), grew up with the Huns as part of exchanges so the two groups could get to know each other better. A Roman princess, Honoria, asked Attila to invade the Roman Empire about 450 AD to help her get power. But when Attila did invade, his old friend Aetius changed sides and got the Visigoths to fight the Huns in a big battle in 451 AD, keeping Aetius in power and Honoria out of power.

Soon afterwards Attila died, and his three sons split his empire between them. The Huns never again became a strong force, and gradually mixed into the Germans and the Slavs. Their relatives, the Turks and Mongols, however, later succeeded in taking over much of West Asia as the Ottoman Empire and the Mongol Empire.

 

[sophie]

I don't know if I like being referred to in such a way by so many of the participants in this thread. It's definitely weirding me out.

I'd offer a more substantive comment on what's going on but I'm emotionally exhausted and kinda wired right now

Meh, Masada already said what I didn't have the balls to say myself.

 

[Dachs]

Yaay came across something more conclusive by researching the net:

cantstoplaughing.avi

 

[MajKira]

whats funny?

 

[Maniacal]

Anyway, it is rather confusing that Huns seems to refer to several different groups of people. A slurr for Germans, the Huns of Attila who invaded the Roman Empire, the Huns who invaded China* and for some reason I want to list a fourth but I think I might be wrong.


*That could just be Disney's fault, someone is playing one of the songs from that movie in teamspeak right now.

 

[Dachs]

whats funny?

Your idea of something conclusive is a "history for kids" website.

 

[MajKira]

Your idea of something conclusive is a "history for kids" website.

tru, but just I like how its written

Anyway, it is rather confusing that Huns seems to refer to several different groups of people. A slurr for Germans, the Huns of Attila who invaded the Roman Empire, the Huns who invaded China* and for some reason I want to list a fourth but I think I might be wrong.

But originated probably as XiongNus,mongolic

 

[Dachs]

tru, but just I like how its written

Incorrectly?

 

[MajKira]

Incorrectly?

You mean thats not correct? Okaaay, maybe. I supposed something like that to regain some older memories on origin of huns being mongolic