How to counter longbows + great wall?

[ion2atom]

So I was playing a game as Russia on emperor today and was doing pretty well. Had 3 AIs on my continent, and played really aggressive. By turn 50 I had 4 cities and had excess happiness. I took out Germany by turn 100 and took out Rome soon after. I ran into a roadblock though, when I went to clear out the last remaining AI, England. They had built the Great Wall, and had Longbows. A ton of longbows. Even though I was ahead by about 10 techs, had Longswords, Trebs, and cav, I could not dent this ing AI. It was like throwing my units into a meat grinder.

Eventually I allied with the two CSs right next to her and just spammed riflemen and cossacks into her area and took her out. I think it was around turn 220-240 before I finally finished her off.

What would be the counter to that? I tried attacking from 4 different directions, I beelined more mil tech, but she was still crushing my military. Her longbows were so advanced they were 1 shotting my fortified riflemen on hills.

 

[FeiLing]

Well the obvious counter would be to research Dynamite, as it renders the great wall obsolete.
You could also try to take out the city where it was build first (especially if it was not the capital). Maybe some sneaky embarking attack while distracting her at your actual front with a few units.

Infantry seems pretty pointless in this situation... maybe you should have gone pure cavalry too.

You can also experiment with workers at the front. The AI might actually move a longbow out to capture your worker, just to be killed next turn by your troops (also getting the worker back).

 

[ion2atom]

Well the obvious counter would be to research Dynamite, as it renders the great wall obsolete.
You could also try to take out the city where it was build first (especially if it was not the capital). Maybe some sneaky embarking attack while distracting her at your actual front with a few units.

Infantry seems pretty pointless in this situation... maybe you should have gone pure cavalry too.

You can also experiment with workers at the front. The AI might actually move a longbow out to capture your worker, just to be killed next turn by your troops (also getting the worker back).

I did set up a two cannon ambush with a worker for bait, and took out a few longbows like that, but she was creating and buying them so fast, even with no money, that it wasn't enough.

I couldn't tell which city had the wall, it ended up being in the last city I took, not in her capital.

I couldn't embark, as she had SotLs out in the bay and I was beelining Dynamite.

The weird thing is, I had a massive army of rifle, cossacks, and cannon ready for when Dynamite was done. When it was researched, I sent them in, yet they were still getting the movement limit. Don't know if that was a bug or something else.

 

[Scarpa]

Great Wall goes obsolete when the *owner* researches dynamite, not you.

As for a counter, I dunno, just ignore them and kill any units that come into your territory?

 

[Tabarnak]

Lancers.

 

[NotSure]

All good advice but the GW doesn't become obsolete until the owner researches Dynamite, and AI always tends to delay for as long as possible. The worker trick is good, but I usually pass on fighting AI with the GW until I have flight (and fighters/bombers); combustion; clear indication they've researched Dynamite; and/or a ridiculous tech advantage. Elizabeth is especially nasty with the GW.

 

[Gucumatz]

Yup. I love playing as Elizabeth or Wu Zetian on Multiplayer and getting the Great wall. Capturing an enemy city with blitz attacks becomes easy to defend with longbows ranging nearby units stuck under Great Wall effect. Plus in multiplayer if I go Elizabeth I try focusing on a small empire early so I can get the Commerce Production Bonus to spam Units. Longbows are deadlier in multi I feel.

The best thing I could say I guess would be cover promoting, lancers, horsemen (if you went Genghis Khan horses can kill lizzy sadly). Other than that you just have to overpower it.

 

[ion2atom]

Ah that explains alot, I thought as soon as the first person researches Dyno the GW becomes obsolete.

I had krepost + armory in all my production cities, was promoting cover as soon as they were produced. Did not help that much. Even with horse, I could not push far enough in to get to the core of Longbows. Her cities were in a triangle, all with high defensive bonuses. She had all her longbows, were by now were highly promoted, in the center. Her area was also heavily forested, reducing my options even more.

Eventually I just kept suiciding units into one of her cities and broke it. Once it was down, she dropped soon after. That formation was very nasty though.

 

[krc]

You want dynamite anyway, so your artillery can trade shots with the longbows. And, as others have pointed out, lancers and cavalry to get to the remaining longbows faster.

 

[pat a cutie]

Had a similar situation, an AI Kamehameha was barricaded in FULL FOREST terrain, had 2 Strength 80 !! Cities, he got like all wonders while I was wiping the continent
... had to take him on because he was getting close to cultural VC ... it was so depressing. I just continued because I wanted the Denmark achievement and it was not fun at all.

My cannons just kept getting killed and could not even get in range because of the goddamn forest - no hills too, sigh !
I kept piling on units and managed it just before I got to Artillery. Waiting it out seemed so lame. But yeah, GW seems pretty popular for AI and it's a real pain in the butt sometimes

 

[Babri]

Cover promos for all ur units (resist ranged damage) + extra move promos for ur cav & lancers. It also depends on the terrain. If the terrain was too hilly then I would wait for getting artillery & then attacking.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

interesting. i thought that if I developed dynamite I would be able to invade an AI with the Great Wall since I should be able to blow stuff up now. that's an odd thing to make it detrimental only to the person with Great Wall getting dynamite.

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

The easiest counter is to just wait for Dynamite. While it doesn't make the Great Wall obsolete until the owner researchng Dynamite (which is silly if you ask me, but whatever), the Artillery having Indirect Fire and 3 tile range is enough to combat the movement penalty if you take things slow.

I've also found that Denmark counters the Great Wall pretty well, since the movement penalty doesn't extend into the water. So you can just use amphibious assaults, and never worry about spending a lot of time on land. Of course this is entirely dependant on map conditions, and thus less effective versus England. However Ships of the Line aren't much stronger than Frigates.

Regardless, the best counter is to build the Great Wall yourself. Especially if you're planning on an early Domination victory. Simply denying your enemy the opportunity to build it and you never have to worry about it. It also has the bonus effect of making the computer totally ineffective at invading your land. If you thought the AI was bad before, just watch them when they can only move 1 tile at a time.

 

[omnishakira]

ive experienced it and i dont think theres real counter its kinda broken vs england. The only thing that help is upgrading your unit vs range and bruteforcing your way. 1-2 knights helps too

waiting for dynamite is not really a proper '' counter '' imo just a way to avoid the problem

 

[joncnunn]

Also, even if your not playing Denmark / England, you can promote a few units to Amphibious and beeline to Astronomy against a soft city target and come in via the sea as well; preferably one with several coastal tiles.

Another counter: Play as Mongolia. Build your UU and take advantage of its move after combat to move in; bombard the city and retreat.