How to Limit The Massive Number of Units In Late Game Huge Maps?

[duxup]

I read through the FAQ, I hope this is appropriate place to post this question.

I’m a big Civ 3 fan and I like playing on the Huge map with as many computer opponents as possible. I’ve managed to eliminate any of the issues such play presents by making my own personal gameplay adjustments and changes in the game settings in the .biq file. There is only one issue that I’ve been unable to eliminate.

When nations reach a particularly size and level of tech advancement size the amount of units available explodes into an unmanageable amount. I think I’m pretty adept at using all the keyboard shortcuts for unit management but inevitably I become frustrated with the massive numbers of units.

I’m curious if anyone has found effective adjustments to make in the game that allowed them to play on huge maps and yet limit the seemingly inevitable explosion in unit numbers in the later stages of huge maps?

 

[ybbor]

quick one that will probably make life a whole lot easier: Shift-U it upgrades all units of the same type that can be upgraded

 

[Tomoyo]

Probably the only way is to kill your opponents really really quickly. If you really get annoyed, play on a smaller map.

 

[Crimso]

Yes, try playing on smaller maps! Less cities = better control = more fun.

 

[sleepsy]

I know very well what you mean and I am afraid there's no simple solution. Once you have bigger map, you have also more things to watch and unit management can be real pain. By the way, this is often the reason why I try to avoid war even if I know I would benefit from it - I simply don't have stomach for all the infantry/armor/aircraft/ship moving

Anyway - one thing which helps is to use civ version with adiitional buttons (and shortkeys, of course) for stack unit movement. I have C3C 1.22 but this feature is present from C3C 1.00, maybe longer...

 

[Turner]

The expanded worker buttons arrived with PTW, IIRC. But they were always there as shortcuts.

 

[sleepsy]

The expanded worker buttons arrived with PTW, IIRC. But they were always there as shortcuts.

Always? I knew I should read the civilopedia better. How many games did I play without knowing that...

There is always something to learn. I am only sad that duxup probably already knows this (as well as everybody else, it seems ) and that my reply offers him no real help.

Maybe few general tips I found usefull: after building a railroad I put offensive units like artillery or tanks into one strong city to have them on one place when needed, I use rally points to help with this task. "Wake all, select <unit>, move all <units> of that type, fortify all for the rest of units" is also helpfull.

 

[Turner]

Just this game I've had a few core cities that don't have defenders in them. I've got a huge tech lead, and a large amount of land under my control. The AI would have to do real good to get to these cities.

Generally, my units stay in the city they're produced in. Unless I'm at war, then generally I use a Continental Rally Point to send them to the same spot. Real easy to do when you have rails.

 

[duxup]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I don’t have any issues with city management or such when I play the huge maps, pretty much just the units. It’s weird how when your economy hits a certain point the amount of units you can support just explodes into such ridiculous numbers. I use all unit managment tools I know (and I think I know them all) and some of my own strategies like using rally points and etc. Sadly the unit management tools just don’t seem powerful enough.

If there’s one disappointment in Civ 3 I’ve had it has been poor unit management tools I can only hope we see some better unit management in the next Civ.

In the meantime I think I’ll be focusing on waging war before I hit that unit number explosion point and maybe seeing if I can adjust the game to limit tech progress to a particular age to limit productivity if that is possible.

 

[Apocalyptic]

I like smaller maps as well. They also lead to quick intense battles where the stakes are higher due to each has less to lose. Always results in more intense fighting for me at least. Wars typically last longer on these maps as well. Keep that in mind. This is based solely on my experiences of course.

 

[Flintlock]

One thing you could do is, in the editor, make it so that the explosion of unit support never happens. Just make the unit support cost for each unit so intense that once you hit your free unit limit, you can't build any more w/o ruining your economy.

 

[Kozmos]

I also like to play on huge maps but the only solution I found is Spies and lots of

 

[sleepsy]

One thing you could do is, in the editor, make it so that the explosion of unit support never happens. Just make the unit support cost for each unit so intense that once you hit your free unit limit, you can't build any more w/o ruining your economy.

This looks very interesting. Realy have to try.

 

[Roland Johansen]

One thing you could do is, in the editor, make it so that the explosion of unit support never happens. Just make the unit support cost for each unit so intense that once you hit your free unit limit, you can't build any more w/o ruining your economy.

Although this would work, I advice against it as it hurts the AI more than it does the human player. In a normal game the AI often builds more units than it can support and destroys its own economy with the huge unit upkeep (especially on the highest difficulty levels).

I would increase the production costs of the late game units. If tanks cost 400 shields it will take a while to build a large army. To balance the game, you probably need to increase the strength of these units too.

 

[stachnie]

Probably the only way is to kill your opponents really really quickly. If you really get annoyed, play on a smaller map.

I had played on Huge maps almost exclusively and now I decided to try Tiny ones and I like this change (at least at this moment). My present level is Monarch; on Huge maps I could win easily (usually by diplomacy) only 1/3 or 1/4 of games and I played only a few favourite civs (mainly Religious as I hate Anarchy), on Tiny maps I win almost all games as any civ, before 1000 AD if on Pangea or about 1300-1400 AD if on Archipelagos (by domination).

I decided to give a try to all civs and up to now I gained the highest score with Mongols - up to now I strongly disliked their traits and UU. Anarchy is not a problem because I revolt only once: to Monarchy (or sometimes Feudalism). Just make sure to get ToA, avoid Education and conquer neighbours.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.

 

[sleepsy]

I would increase the production costs of the late game units. If tanks cost 400 shields it will take a while to build a large army...

True. This is probably the good solution which could avoid having huge stacks of units on both yours and opponents side.

...To balance the game, you probably need to increase the strength of these units too.

I wouldn't do that. I believe that increasing the unit attributes (other then production costs) will make the game more unbalanced. In fact, each such super-unit would then work as an army, easily crushing more obsolete units. The first civ to build them would have big advantage over others.

It seems to me that increasing unit production cost could make the job, but still...it has to be played carefully with correct values to maintain game balance.

 

[Cataphract887]

but if tanks cost 400 with the same stats you could make cheaper units live cav and crush them.and the more costs go up,the stronger bombers and other support units would get.

and tanks should beat units in other ages without thinking,like in civ2.and the first civ to build modern age units should have a huge advantage

 

[danz]

What would really help is a way to combine units into real armies. Not groups of 2-4 units with an extra movement point, but a real combined-arms army with its own artillery support, air cover, supply, and so on. Of course, we would need a tactical combat mode to take advantage of this. A hit-point-by-hit-point roll of the dice won't cut it. What would be even better is if you HAD to have an organized army to fight an offensive war. You could use individual units on defense, in forts and city garrisons, but if you want to stage an offensive against an enemy civ on the other side of the ocean, you can't just start sending hordes of individual units. In RL this simplistic type of strategy only works in guerilla warfare.

 

[sleepsy]

but if tanks cost 400 with the same stats you could make cheaper units live cav and crush them.and the more costs go up,the stronger bombers and other support units would get.

and tanks should beat units in other ages without thinking,like in civ2.and the first civ to build modern age units should have a huge advantage

Increase of production cost would have to be done for all units not just for tanks, of course. Something like: Warrior unchanged...Cavalry doubled...Tanks tripled.
Balance needs to be found...

 

[majk-iii]

naah... want lesser units, play smaller maps.