How to win Deity Pangeaa with no food start?

[RedKi-rr]

I tried several times but was comletely demolished.
I saw SG at this forum but they usually have different settings.

How to play at Deity level on Standard Pangea map with raging hordes? GL doesn't help much, since it's biult rather early (1100-900bc). Stupid barbs greatly slow expansion. AI runaway from start in techs, so I can't do techbrokering. Armies are not so great as in C3C. Opponents are random. I choose my civ. What civ is best for this? I assume somewhat militaristic and...I aim for militaristic victory (domination/coquest). My land is usually poor on food and have 1-2 lux resourses.

How to play in ancient age? When should I build first settler? How to catch up AIs? How many troops (like swordsmen) should I have to capture GL? What civ is nice for this? May be stricktly beeline GL?...

The best my try was with Celts and Accelerated production. But eventually German became superpower and came with cavalry when i successfully fought with Enland on other front. They all entered into Industial age when I entered medeival...This is pain to fight with gallic swordsmen (50 shields!) against medeival infarties and musketeers...I had 37 cats, which drained all money and were almost comletely useless...I'm so frustrated with these setting...

I would be greatful for any help/tips/links.

 

[Stoertebeker]

Hm. My knowledge on this is theoretical, since I'm picky with starts (and usually take the mayans).

Granaries will pay off the most, if you don't start with food bonus. On the other hand: If you don't start with food bonus, at least your second city should have some. So I'd tend to build warrior, warrior, settler, warrior, granary at first, so that you can settle a food-rich place fast, where you can at least have a 6-turn settler-factory (which would consequentially start with a granary). Playing the mayans always helps, I think, the more, when you play with raging barbs. An expansionist civ (Inca) might also be a good choice with barbs on.
Or you let the barbs away and take a food-rich start.

Ah, and, of course, micromanaging the start helps a lot: If you make an excel sheet, at least for your first one or two cities, that helps a lot, as you can play through different building orders, so that the granary will finish one turn before growth, for example, or that there is at least one tile roaded on the way of your first settler. Such things.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I usually try to play random standard maps. But I almost always choose civ)

Unfortunately, there are no Mayans in PtW, and no agriculturial as well...
But Indusrious is great (it also gives prebuilding). So, I choosed France (Ind, Comm) and beelined to Lit and win GL at 1200BC. And then played about 6-8 hours continueosly. Things went rather good, esp. GA with musketeer. But then I noted that I played without barbs at all...If understand correctly "No barbs=No huts"?

Raging hordes gives a lot of advantages to AI (i guess they get enourmous number of techs from hut). Expansionist civ won't help you much. Although I want try Zulus again.
BtW, when you try to build GL first there not time for the second food rich city, it should build GL I think...Well I don't know, I don't have very much practice.

Yea, that excel sheets are great) I think I should try one soon) Thank you!

 

[Raliuven]

One of the problems might be using accelerated production on top of deity with raging barbarians. Accelerated production is usually a bad idea.

Everything else should be doable. I'm by no means an expert in this area, but I've won a handful of deity games now and I always play with barbs on. The AI will run away with techs at any barb setting (other than off) because of GH. You are better off ignoring GH; at best an expansionist tribe will 'rob' a few GH from the AI with little payout. Early scouting and contacts are good things, though.

If you are in a horrible food start the game may be DOA. Even a moderate start can be a major pain. Get out some units to scout and make contacts. I am a granary type person, so my 1st serious build is almost always a granary. Settler first may work well if you have a nice food bonus area nearby. If you are okay with stacking the deck, pick an industrious tribe and then make all the AI non-industrious. The second trait is a tossup for me - I can see merits to scientific, commercial or militaristic.

My picks are:
Industrious + Scientific = Ottomans - my personal favorite with a powerful UU.
Industrious + Commercial = France
Industrious + Militaristic = China - also a powerful UU.

Likewise, deprive the AI of those traits - eliminate scientific and commercial. Religious can make culture a headache. I usually end up with a mixture of militaristic, expansionist and religious civs as my enemies.

Capturing the GLB is a more feasible approach than building it at this level. In PTW your major advantage over the AI is your dual-core. As soon as you set up a productive 2nd core, you have a fighting chance. This is a bonus the AI pretty much wastes.

You should not be too far behind in techs - and don't forget to play one civ against another. Tech trade to the civs that are on par or lower than you. Regarding troop counts - at Deity figure each city for 3-4 defenders; the captial will have 4-6. You'll also need to pierce their offensive troops. You can't afford to waste troops, so warring intelligently is very important. You'll need to plan your invasions and use the terrain, etc.

Cats are nice, but until rail and artillery it has a limited role to play. It can be pretty hard to protect your artillery train, so I mostly use them in a defensive role (meaning offensively within my own borders). If you have a slow moving army they can hide under, that might be different. 37 catapults is some serious building. That's 740 shields - or 24 swords or 18 MI (or 14 gallic swords). While I might build a few cats in cities without barracks, most of my military builds will be offensive units.

 

[CKS]

In PTW catapults aren't nearly as useful as in Conquests. In Conquests you can use a lot of catapults to redline city defenders, as military units are targeted preferentially. In PTW most of your catapults will target buildings or population instead, so the offensive use of catapults is not nearly as appealing.

I'd avoid barbs, but deity AI should at least keep the barbs to a manageable level for you.

Choosing your opponents would make your life easier - selecting AI with useless traits or very late UUs would help.

If you start with alphabet and beeline to literature, you can probably get there first. Rather than building the GL, though, you might trade literature to try to catch up in techs. Then capture the GL once your opponents are far down the tech tree. If you head to military tradition, you can build a great stack of cavalry to take the city and leap ahead in tech.

SirPleb has a lovely write up of his Sid HOF game. While it is for Conquests and his starting conditions are different from yours, I think a lot of his analysis applies to your situation, too. It is at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=81424.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Thanks a lot for your answers! I really appreciate it!

@Raliuven, I agree with accelerated production. I began to play with it by some reason I don't remember. And it helped me to beat Deity in a civ3 mode...Moreover playing with celts (and with raging barbs) I aslo got nice position, but I was mistaken with several global strateg desicions).

I like that you play almost exactly with my settings. And you don't use CivAssist like me)
Your tips are very useful. I will remember them and will try to apply.

Also some questions. If you don't build GL how do you catch up AIs in tech? And when? Do you buy techs and goto Republic and make your own research? How many commerce usually do have at the beginning of Medeival era? At the end of it?
When I read different C3C games, I noted that they buy techs until modern era...
I tried this method but anyway most of my gold went onto uprades)) Probably my losses higher than they should be. Without GL you need even more gold to buy techs.

BtW, what is DOA?

What do you mean "to play one civ against another"? That is - to choose a victum and attack only it? Also I tried to milk AIs for thech (even abusing peace treaty...) but they didn't give me much tech. So, I still was far behind (about 8-10 techs) and was able only to buy techs...

I hope, now when you got C3C you wouldn't forget about PtW...)
BtW, Indusrious in C3C give only 50%

@CKS, I agree, I have noted already for myself that Cats love to kill people and destroy buildings...Only artilerry are good.

I add barbs since they make life even worse at Deity. At least without them I get a small peice of fresh air...At least built GL)
I don't like to choose opponents. It's like to play with comfortable map or conditions. I let freedom to myself only choosing civ. I agree I can lose a lot of games before I win...But in this case my first moves should be nearly perfect))

One question. How to trade for Lit? For all gpt I have? At this moment I usually don't have much gold. I can buy writing easily...On other hand, I remebmer that all AIs start building GL almost simultaneously. Therefore Lit should be rather cheap. And prebuild should help. I thik I will try it. Thank you!

And another question. If I will beeline Cavalry...Won't AIs defend his cities with Infarty when I come with Cavalry? Does it mean abusing RoP. I'm okay with it, but it's possible only once per game)) So, how much cavalry should I have to beat 6 fortified Infarty?
Anyway I will try this way too)

Thanks for the link. I think I read it once...I read/looked through a lot of different Deity/Sid threads. I will read it more deeply)

@All,
Why PtW Deity (60%) is equal to C3C DG (70%)? (According to HoF)
Mechanics of PtW in some thing is much worse/harder than in PtW.
Early sell contacts, bad catsm bad armies, no agri trait, no trick with borrowing money VS second core, good ind trait
It seems to me that it should be equal to C3C Deity at least...

 

[CommandoBob]

BtW, what is DOA?

Dead On Arrival, in the context, too bad a start to play.

What do you mean "to play one civ against another"? That is - to choose a victum and attack only it?

Almost. Chose a victim and have everyone attack it, generally with Military Alliances.

 

[Raliuven]

Also some questions. If you don't build GL how do you catch up AIs in tech? And when? Do you buy techs and goto Republic and make your own research? How many commerce usually do have at the beginning of Medeival era? At the end of it?
When I read different C3C games, I noted that they buy techs until modern era...
I tried this method but anyway most of my gold went onto uprades)) Probably my losses higher than they should be. Without GL you need even more gold to buy techs.

Even at Deity I tend to research against the AI. Once you are 8-10 techs behind, getting back on top can be difficult. Here are some of the things I have done in the past (and remember, there a lot of more experienced players than myself, these are just suggestions that have worked for me):
1) Take techs in a peace deal - but make sure you honor the peace treaties or the AI will stop playing ball.
2) If you are okay with fighting a war, offer to assist someone under attack by allying with them for techs. This will also make you an instant trading partner. I like to ally to a civ against another civ that needs to make it through the first to reach me. So it would be the enemy civ, my ally, then me. E-A-M. You can pick up some techs and not really have to fight much. Can be risky at deity because if the enemy civ starts to win, it can be a real pain.
3) If you think you are strong enough to take some land, ally with the other civ so it is A-E-M and crush the unfortunate Civ between you. Be careful, though. In my experience the AI prefers to attack the human, so you could be handing a lot of land your ally. Make sure you are in a position to take advantage of the war - that means having some settlers on hand.
4) Second core. Make a good one at this level and your power almost doubles. The AI will waste this and it will make some headway in the balance for production and research vs. the supercharged AI.
5) Isolation - try to isolate large civs from trading techs. It doesn't matter if they are 8-10 tech ahead if you have developed a core of Civs that hate them and will go to war at the slightest suggestion.
6) I rarely ever steal techs, but that's a possibility.
7) You may not be the tech leader but you that doesn't mean that opportunities are not present. Shop around the weaker Civs and see what you can buy/research that they don't have already. Let them fund your buying/research or, if possible, buy 2-for-1 or better - that means buying/researching a tech someone else does not have and, as soon as you buy/research it, trade it with the other civ for something you don't have. Often there are two (or more) tiers of AI civ power. If you find you are in the bottom half, trade with the bottom half. Get on top of your tier and you can step on them to get into the top tier.
8) No matter how far behind I am, I rarely stop researching. Unless you are sure you can buy your way into the game, keep plugging away.

What do you mean "to play one civ against another"? That is - to choose a victum and attack only it? Also I tried to milk AIs for thech (even abusing peace treaty...) but they didn't give me much tech. So, I still was far behind (about 8-10 techs) and was able only to buy techs...

Don't break deals. The AI can get away with it; they will NEVER forgive you. It closes too many doors. For some players it is a matter of honor. Generally its nice to be on the giving end of a dogpile; but it can be benificial to be in the weaker group - they have a vested interest in keeping you as an ally - and that means trading opportunites.

I hope, now when you got C3C you wouldn't forget about PtW...)
BtW, Indusrious in C3C give only 50%

Well, I intend to play PTW until my wife pries it from my cold, dead fingers. I love the GOTM so I don't see myself stopping that. I really like the idea of RCP and a good 2nd core. Oh, and I also like my 100% worker output Industrious trait. I set my civ selection to random so that I don't cycle through industrious civ every game.

One last note - upgrades can be handy but don't break the bank on them. Build new units and disband old units in places were the quick shields can make a difference. I do upgrade units, but don't go overboard - in other words, don't upgrade units just to upgrade them.

 

[RedKi-rr]

@Raliuven, Thanks a lot for such useful notes! Exatly what I'm looked for.
Honestly, I wonder how you can play with random civ. As for me, it's very difficult!

Also I read SirPleb's thread. It's great!


I would add the save of that game with France. Diplomacy is very bad)) But I think I have enough forces to win the rest part of the game.
View attachment 295517

It was rather interesting. I decided to play test game for GL, and win it. Then I decided to take out with swordsmen my neighbor and then I played all the night%))
If I had wife she would beat me for that))

I think I spent money for upgradings rather aggressively. Probably it was better to buy 2-3 techs...At the beginning I had one iron at my border. And when I built few knight it dissappeared, and appeared two tiles further at the border of my neihgbor) Also I didn't have Saltpeter (But I like more Saltpepper)) ), so I had to buy it for huge sum of money. This means that I had to spend much money for upgrades and for rushing army.

If you have a few short comments on save it would be interesting to hear them. I stopped at 890AD and try to play when will have time again. I would be very greatful for any advice. I hope I have chance here))
Deity/Totally (temp, age etc) Standard/Pangea/No barbs/No reloads/Random opponents/Civ chosen as France

 

[Raliuven]

Okay, you’ll have to forgive a little; the language difference is a little bit of a shock. Call it the essential ethnocentric American in me.

First, let me say what an excellent collection of luxuries you’ve got! Six local luxuries in your area! Nice! And a nice row of fish down by . . . well. . . I’m not even going to attempt that name! Close to Aeaeii – Vanna, can I buy a consonant?

Tthe Forbidden Place isn’t in a great place but it can be salvaged by moving the palace further out as you expand.

You’ve got a clown in Aiuai – why? Happiness is not a problem with 6 luxuries. I don’t see any other such things, so this was probably an oversight. You’re building a cannon in a core city (Acainii?) that has almost no infrastructure – why are you keeping this city down? Etc.

You’ve got the GLB, Colossus and the Oracle. The GLB was due to the test, assume. Not sure I would have built it otherwise. Tech moves too fast to make it worth much. I hope you captured the other two. Hard to tell for me, but it looks like this was one of your original core cities. Those are the LAST two wonders I would build. In the AA I allow myself MAYBE one wonder. The primary drive in the early game is to REX like crazy. Many of your ‘core’ cities are still low on population and are underdeveloped. You’ve got a staggered RCP3/RCP4 going on around your FP. Your RCP around your capital is shot – you got 1 city at RCP3, 2 cities at RCP4, 2 at RCP 5, 1 at RCP6, etc. Probably too much to fix now, but something to keep in mind next time. Core cities are also mashed together – they can’t grow to full size. You core has no room to grow; limited growth means limited income for the future. Its a shame because you've got such a good luxury position! You could easily support a larger population.

I see that you have many of the non-required techs. Unless you think you can get to them first and make a good trade, they are just slowing you down. Research is left to right, not top to bottom. Get ahead of the AI and backfill the other techs as you. At 80% research you can pull in ToG or Magnetism in 5 turns. I can’t tell what everyone else has. By the looks of it, everyone has techs to sell you, so right now you are in the position of researching from behind – at least that means you are getting the cheapest prices.

Looks like you are starting to build banks, but you already have libraries (8) and universities (2). You are missing libraries in some key producing cities and you don’t have universities built in your core cities. Now you are building banks. You’ve got two choices that I see – either sell the libraries and universities and concentrate on buying/stealing techs, or start producing libraries & universities big time. I favor self research; otherwise you are giving the AI the money it needs to get further ahead. At +399gpt you could also steal. If I am reading this right, you can do an immediate steal against Spain with little chance of a threat for 1134gp. That means you could steal about once per 3 turns. If you do it safely it is 2268gp – or every 6 turns. It appears to me that the only thing you can actually afford is navigation – which you do not need, and that is WM & around 800gp.

Your army is 8 warriors, 6 archers, 3 spears, 3 horses, 5 pikes, 5LB, 1 knight, 25 cav, 11 cannons, 2 armies, 8 muskets. You are in Monarchy, which probably explains the old units – garrison duty. If you are gong to match the AI for research, Republic is the best – though I understand the draw for Monarchy. You are weak against half the AI, strong vs. the others. Extorting techs has an appeal. Spain looks like a nice whipping post when you are done with the Arabs. The nice thing is that the Arabs are putting down rails – hopefully that coal is located in their borders and not a trade – destroy Arabia and you’ve got rails. Life is easier with rails.

What to do next? You could try to ally the Vikings against Germany? Germany has the last 2 luxuries you need to complete your set of 8. Or do some building to rails and wait to see if any wars start up? Culture might be a problem later, but it looks like you are doing pretty good on the power scale.

 

[RedKi-rr]

@Raliuven, Thanks again!
I hoped for a few comments, but got the detailed analysis. It's great!

And I'm sorry for my Einlish) And for literature as well. I always had problems with it and with different languages, even with my native language%))

I look at the save againg with fresh eyes, and I see that a lot of stuff should me micromanaged)

I duilt only one wodner - GL. Other was captured. My cities always was fond of building troops)) And I didn't thought about RCP when started...It was a test game and I decide to eliminate that 1shield corruption. At the monemt when GL was built I had 3 cities. Then I settled 2 other cities (for workers and iron) and did build only worriors and archers. Eventually I eliminate one civ with swordsmen.

Some libraries were built for culture and expanding. Universities...I prepared them for future reserching. I know, my planning is awful here...I thought only about attack and said to my troop: "Go forward and attack at all cost!"

ToG and Magnetism should cost about 1300 gold. The previous tech costs about 1100 gold. So, I think I will buy them. And will start researching in the next age (straight to RP and infarty). I agree, I should better develop my core cities, but I even didn't thought that the second core is great in PtW...

BtW, that partisans are so annoying! They can use my roads and capture my workers! And then come their rifleman and stack with that partisan...This is not fair, I think. Is the same thing in C3C?

Cermans and celts become a problem here. And vikings are their friends also...Well, we will see) Need to finish arabs and to capture spanish capital with wonders and with 6-7 veteran riflemen.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I played several turns. Things are going rather good. At least two turns ago vikings didn't know a tech that I could start researching) I have nice land, i have coal, i'm going to railroad anything, i have nice power. Main AIs love me (for the moment) and war with each other without progress). Soon the game can turn out for me as AW game...

So, my next plan

1) Build some wokers and railroad the main places. With huge number of good worker build some forts at the front line and put infarty in them (I hope they could defend me against tanks, if tanks will apper soon).

2) Then, step by step, go for celts with 2-3 cavalry armies and about 16-20 artillery.

Actually this game is not interesting for experienced players. Lets it be like blogging)

Here's the saveView attachment 295673

 

[Raliuven]

Just some notes – !

Rep is busted. The AI will not give 20gp for 50gpt. Protecting your rep has many advantages. Once upon a time I couldn’t have cared less about my rep. The game is actually easier (IMO) if you keep your word – unless, of course, you are so powerful you just don’t care (or don’t need to care). As you are coming up from behind this makes it more difficult.

Starving at Iacoaiu but you could get some more productivity out of the city to build the marketplace.

There are a lot of wars going on around you – some you are not involved in. This is good. Unfortunately with a busted rep you can’t get in on the action. In this situation, with an intact rep, you could offer military assistance for techs. But no one trusts you so that is not possible. For example, you could offer to assist the Vikings, Germans, Celts and Spain (once you make peace with them) and they might all offer you techs – you’d have to shop around for the best deals. That could have got you 3-4 techs, basically for free – unless Russia is able to pull out of the dog pile and come after you directly.

Bad news – Replaceable parts is already out because there is a guerilla wandering around. That means cav vs. infantry – not a happy thought. Though if someone is making guerillas, maybe they don’t have rubber? Could just be an upgrade, though. Russia is building ToE which will only put them further ahead. Continuing the military rollover may be difficult. You’ll need a combined arms approach – now that you have rails, artillery is much more valuable.

Good news, it doesn’t look like Germany and Russia have coal. Bad news, the Celts have 4 sources, so your extra is not worth as much. Seems that the Celts are probably already supplying Germany.

If it were my game I would try to move my palace to EoOa; probably need a GL to make it feasible. That should give you a relatively good 2-core empire, though next time I would suggest watching your city placements (I know, easier said then done ).

 

[RedKi-rr]

I played a little bit again.
I didn't do much micro. Sometimes I was lazy or greedy...Eventually I lost ToE by 1 turn (I have a leader to build it in the next turn). I just didn't expect that AI could build it in several turns. So, I wasted about 5-7 turns on my way to RP.

Step by step I conquer AI cities. Actually I haven't much luck in this game. When I fought with Spain they had UU, and it was annoying. Now Germany has UU.
With stack of 30-40 artillery I conquer a city every turn or two.
But it's rather painful to fight against technologically advanced civ. I even don't have tanks, but two my rivals are in modern age now (about 2-4 turns).

I hope I still have chances in this game. But diplomacy is very bad. Without reputation the game turned out to AW It's good that AIs are warring with each other too.

@Raliuven, could you briefly check the save? Is it obvious now?

View attachment 295783

 

[Raliuven]

Sorry, I'm having problems with my AC and it is HOT in MN right now - believe it or not!! I took a look early and posted my notes just moments before you posted this one. The language issue makes it a little harder to digest the info, so I will take a look at this latest save and try to turn it around as quick as possible. Just out of curiosity, what language is this?

 

[RedKi-rr]

Oh, I didn't see this answer yet)

They all have lot of rubber. So, they build partizan for the riding)) I closed all borders eventually.
Yes, with such reputation and bad attitude AIs do such high prices!
Probably I shouldn't sell coal to russians...My bad. They become much stronger now...
And may be to the vikings as well...It was only about 50gpt altogether. Now they are railroaded. And they are friend. I was greedy and I wanted some assistant against germans+celts.

Eventually germans build ToE. Their 3move-panzers are very annoying. You shoul massively protect every border city...I lost about 20 times unprotected cities. To panzers and to cavalries. Moreover germans and celts are big friends. So, it was like 2 front war all the time...Even if I was at peace with one side.
Hope bombers will help me)

Actually I had several games with busted rep. Yes, beacause I was greedy at the beginning)) But at that times I didn't know about reputation) Anyway, it looks like one big war where you tech from behind...

I think I won't move palace. I will place cities better next time) I hope such "2-cores" will be enough for win. 3 cites have base 40 spt, and about 7 cities have base 27-30 spt. For tanks I will build factories.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Oh.. You have you problems when reading the save...It's not good. I didn't undertand this from the first post.

I hoped that the language of the save would be language of your installation. But probably it depends on the installation where the game was creating. I don't know.

But I can easily open the save from your SG, and it's in Russian (that is the language of my installation) on my comp. The same thing is in our SG, but the game was created by other man. And when I play their save and provide my own the languages are right.
Well, I don't know what it can) But if it's become harder to digest the info then you should't torment yuorself

 

[Raliuven]

Well, I may be doing something wrong, but when I open it, much of it is in Russian. There's enough English mixed in for me to get the idea once I compare some screens and Civilopedia entries. But I shall not let that stand in the way!

Well, I’d say you’ve got this won. On the Histograph you are 2606, Russia is at 2676. You are #1 in GNP and land and #2 in manufacturing. You’re not that far behind techs – still around 6 or so that I can see. I would watch what the Celts have and research opposite of them. With their small core, you should pull ahead of them soon and then you can make tech trades with them to get ahead. It’s hard for me to tell what they have and do not have, but of the 3 mandatory techs you can currently work on, they only have 2. Pick up that other tech and then trade. You’ll pull ahead of them soon. You are already pulling ahead of Spain and that should open doors soon.

If it were me, I would not be fighting either of the two you are currently fighting (but maybe you don't have a choice here if they are such good friends and they are constantly picking on you) – I would be make peace with them if possible and turn them both against Russia – Germany is already at war with Russia. Isolate Russia from the other civs and there is no trading. Also, if you ally with the other civs, they may forgive you bad rep and go for some gpt deals they might not otherwise take. Spain and the Celts will serve a temporary purpose – they will fall behind in techs and you can capitalize off that – once they no longer serve that purpose, you should be at tech superiority over them and you can then beat them into the ground.

One other thing to watch- on the culture scale you are very weak. You may need both Russia and the Celts to make sure neither of them can win a cultural victory before you can pull in a domination - they may already be over the 100,000 mark, it i is hard for me to tell. Russia and the Celts are about equal. I’d be careful of upsetting that balance. Germany, Spain and Scandinavia can’t help there.

One last note – watch out for your cav armies – they are no longer safe with bombers and tanks in the game. You also have 5 sources of oil. Looks like the Celts have none and the Germans have one source and Russians have two – they are very close together. If you are serious about taking out Germany, you need to disconnect that oil ASAP. No oil, no panzers or bombers. I see you don’t have much of a navy – you could bombard it out of existence if you can build a navy ASAP or you will need to march a few cav armies in there an disconnect it – and keep it disconnected. Might not be a bad idea to send someone in to disconnect that rubber too. If you have bombers in the queue, that might work too if germany can't produce enough air defense. And no oil, no bombers or fighter either. If you can tough it out, Germany should collapse once their initial panzer builds are demolished.

The only other real worry is that the Russians will launch a ship – since you don’t have any spies, you can’t keep an eye on them. You should be able to trade for those techs against the Celts, Spain and Vikings, maybe even Germany, later. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[RedKi-rr]

I checked again the save from your SG thread. I also can see half in Enlish and half in Russian%) I think it depens on installation where the save was created.

I tried to trade with Spain. They have Nationalism, and I have Industrialization and Sceintific Method. And they didn't trade for them. All civs are furious with me...))

Germans and celts have a deffencive pact. So, I have to figth with both. I tried to isolate celts with the help of mountains)) I doubt I can war against Russia with a help of these guys...Panzers are not very big problem, gremans send them 1-2 per turn, and Russia capture their oil sourse from time to time. I didn't see whether germans used bombers

I need about 35 turns to get tanks. Bombers will be after 7 turns. I hope they also will help. Main german cities will fall in the next 10 turns.

Thanks a lot for your tips and for your vision of the game!

I begin to worry about russian-celtic culture and about russian spaceship...Can UN be a problem?
Is it possible to win by pure conquest (without dom)?

There is some intrigue in the game...I don't know when I can play next time, but it could be the last turnset) Next time I will try to play with good reputation))

 

[Raliuven]

Good luck! Looks like a great game and you're kicking the AI around - that's always nice to see!

You're in the best position to know if a UN-Diplo victory is possible. Russia is most likely to pull the UN, but it sounds like the fighting has been pretty brutal this game. If Russia has been beating on the Celts, Germans and Vikings the entire game, I don't see much hope for a UN victory for Russia - or anyone else as Russia will never call the vote. One more reason to make sure everyone continues to fight with Russia if she builds the UN.

I can't see if the Germans have flight yet, I was just mentioning it because once the AI has bombers, they will use them against your armies. Once your army is weak enough, I would expect to see a panzer roll up and take it down. Just a cautionary tale.

Not sure what you mean about Germany's oil - I can see a source in the tundra on their western coast - the Russians are disconnecting that oil field? It looks pretty safe to me - at least from the Russians. Not from you though, if you move quick enough. Disconnecting the oil and rubber will make it much, much easier to win against Germany. I didn't check to see if the Celts have any rubber to trade to Germany, but I didn't see any Celtic oil fields. That's very good.

You can run both Germany and the Celts off your land, then finish off the vikings. You might want to banish all three to small tundra towns so they can prevent a Russian diplo/UN victory. If you finish off all three of those, you should be close to domination - it may even be enough to win.