How to win Deity Pangeaa with no food start?

[RedKi-rr]

Thanks a lot for a "great game"! But it could be so great only due to my mistakes)) Otherwise I should win it a way before))

Yesterday, I thought about this game and even couldn't sleep! Then I turned on my comp and checked Russia. They gave me RoP for exchange on MA against Spain and for Furs. It's nice. I could finish germans in the next 10 turns. Then put some forces in russian land and pillage most of them in 1 turn))) Yeas, if my reputation is trashed from the beginning then why not try this backstabbing?

Actually I think that MA with germans agaist Russia is not good. They won't help me much. Vikings don't want to give me RoP. And I would fight with germans when they will have motorized infarty.

I have at least 40 turns to win this game. I won't lose due to someones diplomacy victory. I have 11k culture. Russians and celts have about four times higher. Lets say 50k, it's not much. Moreover one of them will preventing other from winning (the winner needs 100k+ and this culture should be greater twice than the nearest culture rival). For spaceship it's needed about 10 tech, so 4 turn per tech give 40 turns...

Moreover I can consider domination as a threshold. That is the enemy victories won't bother me anymore and I could safely conquest all the warld (that is to get "conquest victory")

BtW, I tested bombers and they are awful. Espeshially comparing to C3C bombers. The last can make lethal bombardment, aren't they? (That is bombard to 0 HP) They have better bombardment, and the marines are better. In PtW bombers are kind of weak, but far, artillery...They could be nice only for pillaging.

So, another option in this my game is nationalism. I have a lot of corrupted cities. I will call in army people from this villages from the draft) Moreover I should put taxmen in that villages. At least they will bring 2-3 coins per turn...

BtW, I didn't pay attention again whether Germany has flight. But once they attacked with panzer my alone almost full HP army. And defeated it...Also they can give me RoP for MA against Russia. But I don't like it due to bugged guerillas. I still don't understad why they can use my railroads...At on nice moment they came, go to my inner unprotected city and then stack some infarty with them. Very funny, and we will stay at peace...Due to this I begin to hate late game RoPs. And luckily russian guerillas couldn't do that trick)) What do you usually do with this?

P.S. I have two very interesting games at this moment. But have no time for either of them...Hope I could continue this game this weekend.)

 

[Raliuven]

I would think you'd have more than 40 turns? I can't say I've seen the AI pull in a tech every 4 turns even at Deity, unless they have really good trading partners - another reason to keep everyone at war with Russia. It doesn't seem likely that the Germans, Celts or Vikings are research fast enough to help Russia, all three have pretty small cores now. And Russia is not that big. They must be feeling the hurt from unhappiness and that will impace their science slider (hopefully).

I don't know about using nationalism for drafting, but mobilizing may make a lot of sense here. Just keep throwing units at them until they break. Start pillaging if possible. And if you are going to invade, get rid of those oil resources.

I rarely use bombers for anything other than resource denial and naval battles. Artillery is my preferred method of bombardment in PTW. No bombardment in PTW is lethal.

Regarding cultural victory - that's good news. I couldn't tell where they were at. If they aren't even over 100K, then it doesn't matter.

Yeah, when tanks arrive to the battle you need to be careful with your Cav armies. A defense of a 3, even in a 4 cav, 20 hit point army is not much to stop a tank with an attack of a 16. They don't normally attack full armies, but you can't count on that. Right about now I start moving Cav armies carefully to stop on mountains if possible, or hills at least. Their movement is still superior to tanks, so they still make good backup for artillery on the frontlines and to pillage resources/luxuries.

Your guerillas can't use your rails? That's very odd. I've never had that problem

RoPs are BAD in my opinion. The AI doesn't know how to keep its greedy hands to itself. I only use RoPs if I am going for a diplomatic win and I need to make the AI happy quick. Even then the RoP is really only for 1 turn - the LAST TURN!

One other thought - if a launch seems like is possible, try to deny resources that enable Russia to build SS parts. Bombers might serve a purpose here - or raiding armies. And if a launch is imminent, you don't need to destroy all of Russia - just the city where Apollo is located.

Good luck! Hope you keep us updated as to your progress and eventual victory!

 

[RedKi-rr]

@Raliuven, Thanks a lot for your morale support and informative tips!
Especially that one about Deity AI couldn't research a tech every 4 turns. This greatly inspired me!

I think I almost win this game by conquest/domination (anyway I try conquest, or at least domination with only weak AIs).
Short summary: played 23 turns. Captured all German land, and then started war with Vikings. Captured/razed 2-3 their cities. And then found out than they can be allied with me against Russia...for 1800 gold and furs (also I get RoP with them). I agreed, then sold to them almost all resourses (about 100+ gpt). At the same time step by step I wiped out Celt from the main continent, and after that signed MA with Germans against them (for 750 gold). Celts have one weak city on the small German island, their culture flipping are annoying.

During this time I made some research, and now 2 techs from tanks. That is I can reseacrh tanks as the next tech. I'm in mobilization now and this helps a lot. Bobmers are just fine (at least lots of them helped me to pillage Russian oil).
Drafting is also okish. I try to learn my people to love army.

Interesting thing. MA with Vikings found out to be very helpful. 70% of Russian airstrikes and attacks went to Vikings With my SoD I try to bombard all Russian improvement and divide their railroad by two parts) It seems that Russians don't have coal and don't have good trade partners) But they have motorized transport, a lot of bombers, submarines, battleships...This military forces are very annoying. Anyway I have whole 17 turn to completely cripple them and to prevent their imaginary Spaceship) Now the picture looks like Napoleon with horses and artillery near Moscow))

There is the last save

View attachment 296288

P.S.
My guerillas can use rail, but the same thing can do AI's guerillas with RoP. So, they just look for some empty city and capture it. After that they came with infarty. And all is okay and we are in peace, but I'm without city now. AIs insanely greedy here. In my RoP with vikings I pillaged most of roads near my border, and put some infarty in the positions. This helped) I don't like to defend my inner cities.

 

[RedKi-rr]

Eventually, I just have won!
Although this wasn't a win with no food start and with raging hordes
So, the question of OP is still open for me.
But anyway I'm satisfied with myself and game was rather competetive for me.

Pretty much bad luck in some important situation (like dissapering lonely source of my iron), and a lot of pain fighting with cavalries against motorized infarty.

I had to replay a turn and, later, half of turn due to comp issues. But this was in the latest phase game and didn't make much sense. So, I consider that I played without reloadings.

Some pictures (conquest victory and 53 hours, I think I could win faster if I aimed for domination victory)
View attachment 296402

and attached saves for the cinema. I wonder how I was boxed. It was good that I didn't know about that

View attachment 296403
View attachment 296404

@Raliuven, Thanks one more for your support! I remember your Deity thread

 

[Raliuven]

Congrats on your win! Sounds like you had it well in hand - and a conquest victory!

Well, you win your first game to get a feel fo it, then you can move on to no food bonuses and raging barbs. Truth be told, I HATE barbs, but since the GOTM always uses them, I always play with them in the game.

Cav vs Mech Infantry . . . The fact that you could carry it through to a conquest with mechs running around is pretty impressive. I hate those situation where you look a the defending unit and say "well, they can only promote to elite before they run out of 'bonus' hit points. I've got enough units to overrun them." All you can do is hope for a bunch of retreats before a redlined mech starts to kill unit after unit.

Well, it depends on why you reload. My computer is so old that it crashes often, particularly in the late game when the computer is trying to keep track of everything on a large/huge board. My computer also crashes via the spaceship screen on such a frequent basis that I avoid even looking at it. Very annoying. But a computer 'problem' or 'crash' isn't a reload - its more like a recovery as long as you repeat the steps you took before the game crashed (and assuming you are preserving the random seed, which I always enable).

All in all, I'd say great game! Thanks for sharing!

 

[RedKi-rr]

@Raliuven, Thank you once more! It's always interesting to share a game where one don't know whether he could win))

I was very doubt about the victory two times: before my golden age (where I had poor postition but then by accident built musketeer, attacked and won), and when Russia entered Modern era (here, I even couldn't sleep normally%), always thouht about the strategy and plans ). But fortunately, my dreads was imaginary. And once, I even wanted to turn off my comp immediately, but just saved the game and exited. It was when I lost half of my army attacking well defended Spanish capital. At the same situation I rebooted the comp when I played Deity tiny map...) So, now I try to calm down and to continue later with fresh brains)

Actually figthing with cavs against motorized infarty was very hard. Espesially with weak artillery (copmaring with c3c). I had to bring about 60-80 artilleries to capture one Russian city. At the same time I began to love elite MI and to hate recruit MI. I had tonns of horse meat to attack them, but when I saw how they get promotions and even how I lost cavalry armies, I became very nervous. And in one nice day I got tanks...And things became much more easier)
Also that Vikinkg guy helped me a lot.

I think this troubles with cavs vs MI could be due to poor medeival playing. Moreover, I trashed my rep very early. This almost turn game into AW mode. In the next game I'll try to beeline for cavs. Catapults and cannons are very weak.
And I think to try Ottomans. Their UU should fight better against MI )))

Raging barbs are very annoying. And that AIs get a lot of techs from huts is even more annoying.

Also I played with random seed preserved. But I didn't remember my moves completely...So, actually things went different.

I can see that you almost win your SG games. But anyway - Good luck with it! To get the win faster and to get in more enjoyable way

 

[BlackWizard]

Don't break deals. The AI can get away with it; they will NEVER forgive you. It closes too many doors. For some players it is a matter of honor. Generally its nice to be on the giving end of a dogpile; but it can be benificial to be in the weaker group - they have a vested interest in keeping you as an ally - and that means trading opportunites.



.

Deals can be unintentionally broken. One example is mutual protection pact. I breaks deals even if you are not the agressor!

 

[Raliuven]

Deals can be unintentionally broken. One example is mutual protection pact. I breaks deals even if you are not the agressor!

True, but then I don't sign MPPs with the AI. It is like giving them a license to screw you with complimentary mojo. Considering how bad the AI is at war & trading, the last thing I want to do is give the AI the power to decide when I am going to go to war and with whom I trade. Trade embargos are already annoying enough.

I sign MPPs only when I am going for a diplo win or if I have a specific, very short term goal in mind for the use of that MPP. I usually only do this if there a few other civs around - too many Civs = too many chances your ally will go and attack the wrong enemy.

Sometimes it is just a bad deal all around and you just get caught in the crossfire - for example, a trade connection being broken because of a war - even worse if it turns out to be a phony war. Only way to avoid that is either have multiple trade routes or wait for trade by ocean.

A however story:

Spoiler :

With that said, sometimes I forge alliances very early on as a matter of survival. In GOTM 112 I made an early alliance with Japan who was the other underdog. It worked well because I had the sea to my back and Japan was center stage. Even the Aztecs and Americans on my flank had to spend units attacking & defending against Japan. Everyone else pretty much had to go through Japan to get to me. I used that leverage to give me time to kill the Aztecs. Japan also survived until they turned on me in the late game and I had to put them down, humanitarian reasons and all.

Other than the war bonus, because it was Japan and China against the world, Japan made a nice trading partner. Since they were in the middle of the warfront, they had a vested interest in keeping me in the fight - and I ruthlessly exploited that. I picked up many, many tech in trade for my alliances against the other civs. It was a gamble, though. If they had broken through Japan, I could have been in real trouble. But since the AI is likely to drop out of alliance early, it was unlikely I would have been left unable to deal my way out of a slaughter for fear of busting my rep. Calculated risk.

That wasn't a MPP, but you get the idea.

 

[Aabraxan]

The best use that I have found for an MPP is what I have come to think of as a "Mutual Protection Pact of War." That is, sign an MPP with a civ that you want to draw into a war. Then DOW a second target civ, and wait for the fur to fly. If you play your cards right, you can plunge the whole globe into war.

 

[CommandoBob]

Deals can be unintentionally broken. One example is mutual protection pact. I breaks deals even if you are not the agressor!

You can break deals at any time, but until the game is done and won, that can be a problem.

If you break a deal, you won't be able to buy anything from an AI that is based on a per turn basis. That is, if you want a tech and the cost involves you paying the AI for that tech, and you have already broken one tech deal, no AI will agree to that particular deal. They will pay you gpt but they won't let you pay gpt. The same holds true with luxury and resources, too, since those have to be shipped to the AI for 20 turns.

You can still swap tech for tech or lump sum gold for tech. Both of those are considered one time transactions.

Late game is an okay time to break deals, if you're big enough to get away with it. Before then, breaking a deal can cause further problems.

 

[RedKi-rr]

BtW, Recently I won a deity PTW game with no food start and with accelerated production. That is exactly with setting from OP. I played with Persia and there was iron 5 tiles away from my capital. So, I was lucky and immortas was great. However I did several stupid mistakes, so somitimes I was thinking about giving up...Fortunately I was able to finish this game by conquest and without reloadings)

I can only say that a game with accelerated production is very inbalanced and it's not interesting as usual games. Personally, I don't want to play with this option any more)

 

[Raliuven]

I've played it a few times, mostly on games I've rescued from my son. What stood out to me is that it appears to widen the gap on the start location. If you have a really great start, it is multiplied by the AP. Thus the 'haves' and 'have-nots' end up with a much larger gap between them. I've had very little experience with it, though, so this was just my impression.