How would Jesus be recieved by modern society?

[CurtSibling]

It is interesting, this discussion of a man doing good but also being a con man. I would say that on the whole he is doing good. But clearly he is like any church where the leaders teach things they don't believe, or try to deceive the congregation, but at the same time do a lot of good.

Have you ever considered that everything you believe might be a lie?

How would you react?

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[Eran of Arcadia]

Nonsense.

Human greed and control, abuse of religion was the chain around our neck.

It wasn't atheists who destroyed the Great Library, or destroyed countless
artefacts, books and burned early scientists at the stake. It was your fellow
zealots and deranged madmen masquerading as holy leaders and soldiers.

Human greed and the desire to control others is not a result of religion. It is a part of human nature just like religion or the desire to socialize is. Just because they often work together doesn't mean that one causes the other. We could do so much more as humans if only we weren't so human, you know?

Don't let your dislike of religion lead you to blame it for everything wrong or not perfect in the world. And I am not a zealot.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Have you ever considered that everything you believe might be a lie?

How would you react?

There is a possibility that it is all a lie, I know. But members of my religion tend to be sincere. There is a possibility they are genuinely mistaken, I know. That is a risk I am willing to take. I have reasons for believing in God you could never understand. But if I ever genuinely came to doubt Him or religion, I would do the honest thing and stop believing.

 

[CurtSibling]

Human greed and the desire to control others is not a result of religion.

I never claimed such a thing.

I mentioned brutal people using holy disguises.

It is a part of human nature just like religion or the desire to socialize is. Just because they often work together doesn't mean that one causes the other. We could do so much more as humans if only we weren't so human, you know?

I agree to an small measure.

But I totally challenge the idea that religion is part of human nature.
That is just propaganda, so religionists can claim some lofty status in human history.

Don't let your dislike of religion lead you to blame it for everything wrong or not perfect in the world. And I am not a zealot.

I'll control my own thoughts thank you.

I don't tell you what to think, so please save your sermons for Sunday.

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[CurtSibling]

There is a possibility that it is all a lie, I know. But members of my religion tend to be sincere. There is a possibility they are genuinely mistaken, I know. That is a risk I am willing to take. I have reasons for believing in God you could never understand. But if I ever genuinely came to doubt Him or religion, I would do the honest thing and stop believing.

I salute your honesty...

I guess you too could never really understand mind of an atheist, but perhaps you have a better chance than most here.

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[The Last Conformist]

He'd be arrested for practicing medicine without legitimation.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

When I say religion is part of human nature, what I mean is that the desire to believe in something unobservable but important and beyond us tends to exist in all societies. Religion may or may not be valid but it does seem to be almost universal. That certainly isn't an excuse for those who use religion as a means to control other people, but then things like patriotism or the good of the tribe have been used as well.

 

[Bigfoot]

I think the reaction of our government and society at large would not be very different from those that the Romans and Pharisees had to Jesus. He was quite radical politically, and our current culture and values have a more than passing resemblance to those of imperial Rome. People would not be very accepting of a long haired Jew who roams around preaching against violence and materialism, especially if he had a substantial following. Any miracles would likely be disclaimed or explained away, and those who believed would do so from a conscious choice and desire to believe. Very likely he would wind up in prison.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Maybe he would, but I'll bet he wouldn't have long hair. He did back then as it was the style, but if he came now he would probably conform more or less to the style and fashion of our day.

Just saying is all.

 

[classical_hero]

There was and still is no proof of this mythical man's divinity.

Except what men have written. And I find men with an agenda to be unreliable.

I am basically saying people should not follow mouldy myths that have no basis in reality.

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Your responce accurately says what I said. You do realise that people reacted to Jesus just like you are reacting to him right now.

 

[CurtSibling]

When I say religion is part of human nature, what I mean is that the desire to believe in something unobservable but important and beyond us tends to exist in all societies. Religion may or may not be valid but it does seem to be almost universal. That certainly isn't an excuse for those who use religion as a means to control other people, but then things like patriotism or the good of the tribe have been used as well.

Good post, Eran.

You are among the most reasonable of the bunch.

 

[Norlamand]

He'd likely be medicated and placed in a group home...........

 

[GenMarshall]

Have you ever considered that everything you believe might be a lie?
How would you react?

I acknowlage that there is a possibility that I believe might be a lie, but thats the risk I am willing to take. I have so many reasons for believeing in God that atheists would never understand, its already hard enough to explain my reasons of me believing in God towards atheists. If I ever gotten a genuine bits of doubt about God or religion, I would do the honest thing and stop believing and not become a burden towards the religious people.

I apologise to Eran if I copied what he said earlyer because I felt the same way that he did.

 

[classical_hero]

Have you ever considered that everything you believe might be a lie?

How would you react?

.

have you ever considered what you believe might be a lie?

 

[GenMarshall]

have you ever considered what you believe might be a lie?

To be honest, we all dont know if what we believe in is a lie or not. Its just a risk we all have to take .

 

[Birdjaguar]

But I totally challenge the idea that religion is part of human nature.
That is just propaganda, so religionists can claim some lofty status in human history.

Do you disagree that the desire/need to organize the universe into something orderly is built into us?

Religion seems to be a particularly effective way to do so. For 5000 years it has been the most enduring way. The human affinity for religion is very strong.

Is the human love of dogs part of our nature? Probably not, but there is something in our nature that is satisfied by relationships with dogs. Over time we have expanded that to include many different kinds of pets, but the underlying need is the same.

Religion may not inherent to us, but without a doubt, like dogs, we need something like religion to feel whole. It fills a very basic need.

 

[sanabas]

I acknowlage that there is a possibility that I believe might be a lie, but thats the risk I am willing to take. I have so many reasons for believeing in God that atheists would never understand, its already hard enough to explain my reasons of me believing in God towards atheists. If I ever gotten a genuine bits of doubt about God or religion, I would do the honest thing and stop believing and not become a burden towards the religious people.

If you're going to copy other people's posts from the same thread, you really should give them credit for it. But regarding the bit you added at the end, why does genuinely doubting make you a burden on other religious people?

When I say religion is part of human nature, what I mean is that the desire to believe in something unobservable but important and beyond us tends to exist in all societies. Religion may or may not be valid but it does seem to be almost universal. That certainly isn't an excuse for those who use religion as a means to control other people, but then things like patriotism or the good of the tribe have been used as well.

Makes some sense. I'd say it's a desire to apply some meaning to life. The idea that there isn't anything intrinsically important about one person in particular, or humanity in general, seems to be anathema to a lot of people. And causes others to emit all sorts of angsty philosophical musings. Religion, especially organised religion, seems to fulfil that role of providing meaning to life for plenty of people. I think you mentioned patriotism & the good of the tribe as other ways used to control people, but they're also other ways that are used to assign meaning to life. If you've worked out what other people see as necessary for a meaningful life, then it's only a small step to start controlling others as they strive to make their life meaningful.

 

[GenMarshall]

If you're going to copy other people's posts from the same thread, you really should give them credit for it. But regarding the bit you added at the end, why does genuinely doubting make you a burden on other religious people?

I am sorry, But I honestly felt the sameway as Eran did if I was faced with the same question if presented. If I genuienly doubt my faith it would make me a burden to other religious people because I would just be taking up the pew space as well as constantly saying that "I dont believe this and that" and be confronted by the other parishoners.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yeah. I don't think that CG is plagarizing me or anything. It just so happens that we both have the same opinion and I bet there are more religious people who feel this way. To reiterate:

1. We admit we might not be right about religion.
2. We still feel that it is the best way to go.
3. We would change if we felt we were wrong.

That's not so bad, now is it?

 

[sanabas]

Yeah. I don't think that CG is plagarizing me or anything. It just so happens that we both have the same opinion and I bet there are more religious people who feel this way. To reiterate:

1. We admit we might not be right about religion.
2. We still feel that it is the best way to go.
3. We would change if we felt we were wrong.

That's not so bad, now is it?

Given it's almost exactly the same position as I hold, I can't find anything particularly bad about it. Even if we see number 1 as a vanishingly small possibility.