Huge European map (107x87)

[Angus Khan]

Drogear & abilard,

Yes, this is a very nice looking map.

It's also a great map to chop chunks out of for smaller scenarios.

I have already chopped a section out the map centered on the Balkans for a scenario I'm working on. I used Civ4Editor. The only real problem I had was that it screwed up the river directions.

This map is great for chopping for 2 reasons - it's big, and it uses a cylindrical projection. This means that if someplace is north of you, it will appear directly above you with this projection, regardless of how far off to the side of the map you are. So Ireland is directly above Portugal like it should be, instead of Portugal being skewed way to the left as in many other projections. Because of this property, you can chop out a map of say, Great Britain, and it won't look distorted.

I agree that this map needs modifications. Venice as an island sounds intriguing. Also, re: Istanbul, the Sea of Marmara will become salt water if the Dardanelles and Bosporus are opened up. This would mean adding a river or 2 to maintain irrigibility if wanted.

Is there a sticky of map reference material? I think there may be one in the Civ 3 forums...? I have been viewing much of Europe the past few weeks with Google Earth. What an amazing app. It could be useful in identifying terrain.

Yes Drogear, I would like to see those parts of the map go too, ... however...

I would also like to see the entire map maintained as a resource for European scenario designers to chop "sub-maps" out of. Many different scenarios could be created by chopping small to standard sized maps out of this single map.

The map could even be expanded in the future using Civ4Editor...

 

[Drogear]

Thanks for the info,I´ll look into that.

 

[Roetghoer]

I'm still interested in adjusting this map, as said earlier i allready redid the resources.

I've also been messing around with the starting positions, but wasn't happy with the result (game failed) probably made all the newbie errors there are

I'll give it a quick glance this weekend and try to get it working again or step back to the earlier map with the resources-fix only.

I've haven't got a clue how i should be posting a file this big in this or any other thread.

@ Abilard, i'd be happy to join forces, send me an email adress which can handle large files and i'll mail the map directly to you so you can work on it as well.

 

[dinamo_18]

The only thing I dont like about this map is the amount of land Africa and Middle East have. Why not take that land and give it to Scandinavia because Scandinavia is part of Europe and Africa and Middle East are not and never will be.

 

[Ick of the East]

The only thing I dont like about this map is the amount of land Africa and Middle East have. Why not take that land and give it to Scandinavia because Scandinavia is part of Europe and Africa and Middle East are not and never will be.

Because North Africa and the Mid East were hugely important in European history (Integral parts of the Roman and Alexandrian Empires, for instance), whereas northern Scandanavia is virtually uninhabited and had no historical importance.

 

[Drogear]

Because North Africa and the Mid East were hugely important in European history (Integral parts of the Roman and Alexandrian Empires, for instance), whereas northern Scandanavia is virtually uninhabited and had no historical importance.

No historical importance? Well that’s a bold (and stupid) statement.

Talking about the ancient ages this might be true. But the maps tries to represent the whole history line and that includes times when the northern Scandinavia was indeed very important, like now for an example.

Large gas & oil findings, Vikings, Russian invasions during several different decades, world largest iron oar mining +Narvik route (ww2), sea route to Russia, military strategic points, important science/university studies are only a few points where northern Scandinavia has an impotence.

 

[Ick of the East]

Has northern Scandanavia been as historically important as Egypt or Palestine or the rest of North Africa in European history?
Please be serious.

As for the Vikings, you've got Denmark and Southern Norway and Sweden. That's where the vast majority of them sailed from.
And since you don't have Iceland or Greenland or North America for them to sail to, what does it really matter? All the Vikings who invaded England came from Denmark, which is on the map.

The Murmansk route and the oild fields would be nice, but if a compromise had to be made, I'll take Carthage, Egypt, and Palestine any day.

 

[dinamo_18]

Has northern Scandanavia been as historically important as Egypt or Palestine or the rest of North Africa in European history?
Please be serious.

As for the Vikings, you've got Denmark and Southern Norway and Sweden. That's where the vast majority of them sailed from.
And since you don't have Iceland or Greenland or North America for them to sail to, what does it really matter? All the Vikings who invaded England came from Denmark, which is on the map.

The Murmansk route and the oild fields would be nice, but if a compromise had to be made, I'll take Carthage, Egypt, and Palestine any day.

But still if disregarding history, there should be more of Scandinavia and way less of Africa and Arabia. Its hard to play the game historically because cities will not be built in right places, civilizations are missing, the AI can pick a religion other than Christianity (in europe) so having Africa and Arabia included in the map will have nothing to do with history when you play the game. For example England can send a Settler to Africa and then build a city like Liverpool. Now that doesnt seem very historic. All Im saying is when the game is played in the end there is hardly any historical accuracy. So for that matter there is no reason to include Africa and Arabia in a European map instead of Scandinavia.

 

[Drogear]

Has northern Scandanavia been as historically important as Egypt or Palestine or the rest of North Africa in European history?
Please be serious.

As for the Vikings, you've got Denmark and Southern Norway and Sweden. That's where the vast majority of them sailed from.
And since you don't have Iceland or Greenland or North America for them to sail to, what does it really matter? All the Vikings who invaded England came from Denmark, which is on the map.

The Murmansk route and the oild fields would be nice, but if a compromise had to be made, I'll take Carthage, Egypt, and Palestine any day.

I actually don’t want the northern Scandinavia to be part of the map either (for game issues). But the oilfields and natural gas findings in northern Scandinavia could play a major strategic roll game wise, and the massive iron oar findings and the fact that we have the biggest source of uranium (will not be mined due to political issues) might be usefull.

I just wanted to state that it has an impotence and it’s insulting to suggest that the northern Scandinavia having less existents rights in a European map than countries of other continents! Northern Scandinavia is far better developed than any African countries ever be at any nearby future.

 

[Ick of the East]

For example England can send a Settler to Africa and then build a city like Liverpool. Now that doesnt seem very historic.

Yes, and Greece could send a settler to Africa and build a city like Alexandria. Or even to Mesopotamia and build a city like.....Alexandria (Iskandria).

And I guess Rome could send a settler to Palestine and build a city like Caesaria.

Heck, Rome might even fight a war with Carthage in North Africa, not that such a thing would have ever happened hisotically. Maybe Carthage could send a bunch of elephants over the Alps to invade Italy! All kinds of strange things could happen!

 

[Angus Khan]

If you look up the word "Europe" in say, Wikipedia, you will find a number of definitions. Perhaps if the map had been named "Europe south of 60 degrees north with North African Mediteranean Coast and Mesopotamia" we would not be having this discussion.

The boundaries in this "Map of Europe" provide the "setting" of the stories that will unfold in the game.

UnCopain wanted Mesopotamia to be involved, so he included it. Perhaps he is more interested in earlier periods of history.

 

[dinamo_18]

Yes, and Greece could send a settler to Africa and build a city like Alexandria. Or even to Mesopotamia and build a city like.....Alexandria (Iskandria).

And I guess Rome could send a settler to Palestine and build a city like Caesaria.

Heck, Rome might even fight a war with Carthage in North Africa, not that such a thing would have ever happened hisotically. Maybe Carthage could send a bunch of elephants over the Alps to invade Italy! All kinds of strange things could happen!

No, you can build a city like Alexandria or Iskandria but the AI will build a city with the name that is next on the list which could be Liverpool. Plus are those names even on the list of city names? Whats wrong with not having Africa and Arabia part of a European map? If Africa only had a little land than it wouldn't matter but the way it is right now is way too much.

 

[Ick of the East]

Whats wrong with not having Africa and Arabia part of a European map?

Because North Africa is more closely related to Europe, historically, and culturally, than it is to the rest of Africa. North Africa was part of the Roman and Alexandrian and Byzantine Empires. The Moors invaded Europe from North Africa. The Turks invaded Europe from Asia Minor. Present day European religions were founded in Palestine and Arabia.

Caesar and Antony got it on with the Queen of Egypt, not the Pincess of Trondheim.

The Mediterannian Sea wasn't a barier between Europe and Africa. It was the easiest way to travel.

Why get hung up on continent names? They are human constructs.

 

[LegioneR]

Very good map,but if replacing more civilization like Israel,Iran,Armenia,Austria to the game,the map will be more wonderful I think...

 

[UnCopain]

Because North Africa is more closely related to Europe, historically, and culturally, than it is to the rest of Africa. North Africa was part of the Roman and Alexandrian and Byzantine Empires. The Moors invaded Europe from North Africa. The Turks invaded Europe from Asia Minor. Present day European religions were founded in Palestine and Arabia.

Caesar and Antony got it on with the Queen of Egypt, not the Pincess of Trondheim.

The Mediterannian Sea wasn't a barier between Europe and Africa. It was the easiest way to travel.

Why get hung up on continent names? They are human constructs.

Exactly

 

[Joni]

Hi,

I absolutely love this map, but somehow I don't get to run it with the new 1.61 patch...is there any way to "fix" or update the map in order to play it again (as mod with all 18 civ's implemented)?
And: is there any way I could continue my old saved game?

Thanks in advance for your help, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[shakadamonkey]

To the earlier post that cited the Sahara about to sweep over the mediterranean and desertify it, that poster should consider that this is a recent development, so really, it's a matter of whether you want this to be a "modern" map or to more accurately reflect climate in ancient times.

In general there tended to be more plains (not deserts) in Spain, a few in the Massif Central, and a few patches of plains here and there in Italy, but in ancient and medieval times quite a lot more of those areas were grassland than they are today.

The Ukraine's current productivity was slightly less fertile in ancient and medieval times than today, but probably not to the extent of warranting making it all plains. Maybe a half-half mix of grass and plains, and several locations of the Wheat resource.

And yes, I agree that north Africa and the Middle East would figure into more European scenarios than northern Norway, that is, unless you wanted to do a Norse civ--then the Princess of Trondheim would indeed be a factor! Hehe... this could be satisfied by making a map even more huge and including the northern regions (as would be required anyway if you wanted to make a scenario for the life and adventures of Harald Hardraade, who'd served as a Varangian in Constantinople, sacked north African cities, etc., before making it back up to Norway).

 

[G-Max]

- What projection is this map based on? Or did you just guess at the coastline?

- What data did you use for resource placement?

 

[vilbe]

This map is perfect! i've been scanning for just the right european map to use for a base as a scenario [or possible mod] in the future. UnCopain, i'd like your permission to play around with it a bit, and if you'd like i'd gladly send you a copy of my final work [or keep you updated at least].


i do agree it needs to be trimmed just a tad however for gameplay issues otherwise its impossible to play in the modern age....

 

[Los Tirano]

Hello all, just checking the discussion and i noticed that Drogear claimed
"and the fact that we have the biggest source of uranium (will not be mined due to political issues) might be useful".

Unfortunately this is incorrect.

"Australia has the world's largest uranium reserves - 40 percent of the planet's known supply. Almost all the uranium is exported, but under strict International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards to satisfy the Australian people and government that none of the uranium is used in nuclear weapons. Australian uranium is used strictly for electricity production."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium

We dont have much, but we do have the most uranium.