Huge map with 15+ civs

[oPunchDrunko]

How likely am I to get a victory with a huge map with 15+ civs? I play on Prince or King if that matters. Science seems like it would be fairly easy... just conquer about half of the map and wait till you can start building the spaceship parts. I think cultural would be harder than science... but the same strategy could be applied; just conquer and focus on culture/ tourism. Domination and religion seem to be particularily difficult.

So back to my original question... how likely would it be for me to achieve a victory with such a big map and over a dozen civs?

 

[Ferocitus]

Impossible to say because it depends on what other civs start near to you.
If, like many other players, you save and restore when things aren't going your
way, or because you made a mistake, then your chances of "winning" are very
high.

Try Gedemon's ludicrous-size Terra Maps with 25-30 civs and no cheesy
save/restores or using exploits if you want a real challenge.

 

[oPunchDrunko]

Why does it depend on which civs start near me?

 

[Kryxal]

Some civs are a major threat early, some are more like extra cities for you. Conversely, some civs you want to trounce early so they don't have time to get rolling.

 

[Abraxis]

Even if you are a peaceful sort. It will determine your access to city states, being next to say Germany vs someone like Pericles.

 

[iammaxhailme]

If you're on prince or king, it's almost impossible to lose.

 

[Casualty of war]

I like playing crowded games for fun, with lots of Civs and the City-State slider all the way up. It does sometimes break the initial placement so someone will appear too close to you for them to settle, making their Settler easy pickings if you are so inclined. Good settling spots fill up fast, and you are unlikely to have room for more than 4 cities without waging war. Sometimes a civ on the other side of the world starts to runaway, gobbling up all those near-by neighbors, so you have to scout thoroughly or risk a nasty late-game surprise. It will make it so that you meet City-States sooner, but also make it less likely that you will meet them first for the free Envoy. Crowded games also tax your computer something fierce in the late game if there are many Civs still active and making decisions.

Play at the difficulty you enjoy.

 

[oPunchDrunko]

How should I go about finding allies in these huge games? Should I generally not ally neighbors? Would I be better off finding allies who pretty well far away from me? I'm prone to warring with neighbors unless I'm going for a peaceful victory

 

[Ferocitus]

If you're on prince or king, it's almost impossible to lose.

Of course you can win easily and often at low levels by using save/restore when
the game isn't going your way. That's perfectly Ok if it increases your
enjoyment, but it's not a fair measure of the difficulty of the levels.

 

[AlannaT]

How should I go about finding allies in these huge games? Should I generally not ally neighbors? Would I be better off finding allies who pretty well far away from me? I'm prone to warring with neighbors unless I'm going for a peaceful victory

Generally speaking neighbors are your best allies because they are in trading range and trade routes are how you profit from alliances and how you improve their level. And having a neighbor that isn't allowed to declare war on you is always a good thing.
On the other hand I often find it more difficulty to be on good terms with my immediate neighbors because they dislike me for settling near them, spreading my religion, etc. and thus don't want to be my allies.

 

[bbufa]

well, it's fun (lower difficulties) but it hurt my CPU, a huge map (12 civs) causes my CPU fan running like crazy ~.~
Domination is too tedious, religion is less painful if you are Yerevan.

 

[LuckyAC]

Of course you can win easily and often at low levels by using save/restore when
the game isn't going your way. That's perfectly Ok if it increases your
enjoyment, but it's not a fair measure of the difficulty of the levels.

No, it's because they tech very slowly at any level below immortal, and are completely unable to counter ranged units in general. You can basically do whatever you want, build all the wonders, get all the suzerains, obviously conquer them whenever you please - it's more of a sandbox game than a strategy game.

 

[roscoepfox]

How likely am I to get a victory with a huge map with 15+ civs? I play on Prince or King if that matters. Science seems like it would be fairly easy... just conquer about half of the map and wait till you can start building the spaceship parts. I think cultural would be harder than science... but the same strategy could be applied; just conquer and focus on culture/ tourism. Domination and religion seem to be particularily difficult.

So back to my original question... how likely would it be for me to achieve a victory with such a big map and over a dozen civs?

I generally play at Prince level (I've been told it the closest to an even playing field AI vs Human. I dislike it when the AI's get blatant and obvious bonuses that the player can't possibly get). I also always use the largest map with a few AI civs taken out. I think the AIs are going to spawn near you no matter what. If you're going to focus on conquering them start early because once you get past the age w/o penalties the AIs will ALWAYS hate you for being a warmonger. (which makes trade/cultural victory harder) It seems like the barbarians spawn more since R&F and that's a double edged sword. In my last game a barb camp spawned near Poland and completely crippled them in the early game. Oddly enough if was in MY FAVOR. The barbs had captured three of their settlers and two builders. This stopped Poland from expanding and since the AI is "dumb" they didn't seem to even try to destroy the barb camp and were under siege in their only city constantly by the spawns. (I would rush past them, steal the settlers and builders and use them to expand my own empire...muhahahaha).

You can get a science victory in those conditions and you really don't have to conquer anyone outside of the wars you're going to have (the AI is going to DoW on you no matter what).

 

[Archon_Wing]

On king, culture victory should be easy. Ais don't put forth that much culture and you just need to beat the second highest while you have many weak targets to gain tourism off of.

 

[Ferocitus]

No, it's because they tech very slowly at any level below immortal, and are completely unable to counter ranged units in general. You can basically do whatever you want, build all the wonders, get all the suzerains, obviously conquer them whenever you please...

Maybe on mickey mouse size maps against a minimum number of other civs. On
larger maps against many (25+) civs you might not have time to find them all in
time to disrupt those that are your greatest threat.

A lot also depends on your immediate neighbours and the relative starting
positions and advantages and disadvantages. I'm not saying that players should
accept starting positions that are obviously absolutely hopeless, but re-rolling
a poorer than average start biases the outcome. (And that's absolutely fine! -
the objective should be maximum enjoyment, and not to conduct a statistically
pure "experiment".)

Finally, what you (with your long experience) see as "easy" at prince or king
level, is not a snack for players for whom those levels are right at their level
of incompetence.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Tried a huge map with 16 civs on King; probably better with the default 12 as it ended it pretty cramped.



I moved off the hill to be next to the horse. Not really sure if that was a good idea because +1 plains hill would be good but I try to avoid settling on forests. Rest went pretty badly; horse archers right at the start (suicide my warrior to take the camp) and then Shaka attacks at the beginning with like 3 civs declaring war on me by turn 30. Killed off neighbors and didn't war for the rest of the game, just for fun and sanity. Magnus + Oracle + Theater District+ Divine Spark + Grants, pretty much swiped all the writers, scientists, and artists except for a few which Kongo grabbed. And then it pretty much just plays like a normal sized map except you want to meet more people. Some were pretty hidden.

I usually play on normal size maps but to my pleasant surprise these huge maps don't really lag anymore than normal maps do.


Stupid reef thing blocking my wonder placement; that's gotta be my least favorite thing about R&F. Had to move the Opera house over to the island over there. Lost Big Ben due to miscounting tiles only to find out I couldn't place it.


And yea, just discover people and send trade routes to as many people as you can. Unplunderable trade routes is pretty cool. Only real threat was Kongo with about 200ish science. Nobody even reached Rocketry yet. Would have been faster if Rome didn't just fall over and die. Should have killed Kongo.

Oh yea, I founded an alliance with Pedro. That never happens.

 

[demidyad]

I always play on the largest map size, fully packed (20 civs and 24 city states) and have no trouble at all winning on Emperor - haven't tried a higher difficulty yet.

I've played this way (overcrowded maps) since Civ 4 and wouldn't have it any other way... the early-mid game feels boring and pedestrian to me without it. Also has the feeling of being a bit more 'realistic', where empires rise by conquering smaller states rather than by settling on virgin land.

 

[Disgustipated]

Honestly I don't find the game that different on large maps with lots of civs. Unless you are boxed in, you can win just as usual. If you are boxed in, "unbox" yourself with force.

my current game which I haven't played in days is a large map with 16 civs. Even if I hadn't went on the offensive around turn 575 (I was experimenting with allowing the ai to develop for more challenge, it was pretty easy unfortunately), I still could have won the game without much trouble had I enabled the other victory conditions. Culture would have been difficult, however as I was landlocked.

 

[LuckyAC]

Maybe on mickey mouse size maps against a minimum number of other civs. On
larger maps against many (25+) civs you might not have time to find them all in
time to disrupt those that are your greatest threat.

A lot also depends on your immediate neighbours and the relative starting
positions and advantages and disadvantages. I'm not saying that players should
accept starting positions that are obviously absolutely hopeless, but re-rolling
a poorer than average start biases the outcome. (And that's absolutely fine! -
the objective should be maximum enjoyment, and not to conduct a statistically
pure "experiment".)

Finally, what you (with your long experience) see as "easy" at prince or king
level, is not a snack for players for whom those levels are right at their level
of incompetence.

Well, disruption isn't necessary. Currently I'm playing a Deity game as China with AI+ and no other mods, have a mediocre starting position with 0 hills or even pastures, never cheated obviously (though I'm careless and often forget to change civics), never fought any offensive wars or captured any cities, never did any chops with Magnus, barely chopped at all (I'm not at all a min-maxer), and on turn 242 (as I said, not a min-maxer, and not even trying for any particular victory condition), I have 46 techs and 204 science per turn, while number 2 has 40 techs and 179 science per turn. It's only a standard size map, bur since I never attacked anyone, it's not that huge a difference, they really do tech that slowly - certainly wouldn't be relevant below immortal.

Anyway, sure, there are less experienced players, but I just take objection to this fixation of yours that rerolling or cheating is somehow necessary to beat the game at any level, let alone King.

 

[Disgustipated]

while number 2 has 40 techs and 179 science per turn.

Strange because I've seen Prince level AI with more science per turn. Though it's usually civs like Scotland, Korea, or Kongo.