Humankind - Carthaginians discussion thread

[Siptah]

Here they are...

Cothon, as expected.
War Elephants, as expected (first disappointment from Humankind for me).
Merchant type, as expected.

Spoiler :

Interesting to see that consecutive civs can still share the same specialization and even a similar EQ (we don't know the bonus yet or what they replace, if anything, but both are presumably built on the coast)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here's the tweet

https://twitter.com/humankindgame/status/1232342031873298432?s=19


Emblematic Unit: War Elephant

Emblematic Quarter: Cothon

Classification: Merchant

 

[FinalDoomsday]

So I guess this means War Elephant units will not be available to just anyone who can gain access to them but instead be restricted to certain cultures.

 

[pokiehl]

Beyond hyped to have both Phoenicia and Carthage! I'm also quite pleased that they gave Carthage "merchant" and not something militaristic. Awesome!

 

[mitsho]

So many Merchants! first guess right for the era. Elephants are cool, other cultures can get "even more war elephants".

 

[Siptah]

At least three mediterranean cultures out of 10 total in the classical age. Besides my love for mediterranean history, I would have preferred to see something different. At least Carthage is not militaristic, which to me would not have made much sense. Expansionist, that I could have understood. But Merchant is the best fit by far imho - except if there would be something like explorer.

I could have done without the War Elephant for Carthage. For me they always belonged more east, to Seleucids, Persians and Indian Kingdoms, where they were used often effectively and not just successfully in two or three battles. I would have preferred something like Numidian Cavalry, but oh, well...

 

[Hawke9]

Very excited to see the Carthaginians. The culture art looks amazing as well!

I guess this rules out all the ancient cultures starting with a B. (For launch, that is )

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I love the culture card. It's very evocative.

 

[SeelingCat]

Makes me wonder what the EQ abilities will be like since if you wind up going Phoenicia -> Carthage, your cities could have both a Haven and a Cothon (unless I'm misunderstanding something of course), which at first glance seems like there could be some significant overlap.

 

[Jkchart]

I could have done without the War Elephant for Carthage. For me they always belonged more east, to Seleucids, Persians and Indian Kingdoms, where they were used often effectively and not just successfully in two or three battles. I would have preferred something like Numidian Cavalry, but oh, well...

On the one hand, I agree.

But on the other, I'd love to see the Numidian Kingdoms represented themselves.

 

[Elhoim]

Makes me wonder what the EQ abilities will be like since if you wind up going Phoenicia -> Carthage, your cities could have both a Haven and a Cothon (unless I'm misunderstanding something of course), which at first glance seems like there could be some significant overlap.

I wonder how they are going to handle quarters. Some questions come to mind:

- How many types are there?
- Emblematic: Are they replacements?
- Can you place more than one?

There seems to be a generic, population quarter, and especial ones for science, etc. I'm pretty sure I saw more than one in cities. Maybe the specialized ones have some kind of requirement, like 3 adjacent population quarters, but no hard limit like in Civ 6 of 1 per city. The same could go with haven/cothon, you could place both. OR the cothon works as a replacement (like haven replaces the normal harbor everyone gets).

 

[ehecatzin]

Makes me wonder what the EQ abilities will be like since if you wind up going Phoenicia -> Carthage, your cities could have both a Haven and a Cothon (unless I'm misunderstanding something of course), which at first glance seems like there could be some significant overlap.

We really don't know much about unit production, or the different roles of the quarters, for me It's a similar situation to the Dunnu and Awari, I think we can only hope they are different enough. I think the Haven is going to be much cheaper to build allowing for early sea exploration, but be terrain restricted, maybe even adjacent to the city center? and the Cothon will be more like a regular harbour with production and garrison bonuses.

 

[ehecatzin]

Also...I wish they coupled each announcement with at least a screenshot of said culture, I'm really curious on the look of Carthage ingame.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I wonder how they are going to handle quarters. Some questions come to mind:

- How many types are there?
- Emblematic: Are they replacements?
- Can you place more than one?

There seems to be a generic, population quarter, and especial ones for science, etc. I'm pretty sure I saw more than one in cities. Maybe the specialized ones have some kind of requirement, like 3 adjacent population quarters, but no hard limit like in Civ 6 of 1 per city. The same could go with haven/cothon, you could place both. OR the cothon works as a replacement (like haven replaces the normal harbor everyone gets).

From the various screenshots, we have seen several Quarters in the same city that looked graphically at least, to be identical. Whether that means ALL Quarters can be duplicated, or just some, remains to be seen. There is definitely a visible distinction, though, between types of Quarters on the map.

So far, and someone who has scrutinized the screenshots and videos can probably address this better than I, we have seen at least 6 different Quarters:
City Center, with some kind of Palace structure - and it seems that many of those 'Palaces' will be unique to an individual Faction.
Population (the Quarters seen with a bunch of generic huts/houses/apartment buildings)
Production? (the Quarters seen with lots of smoking chimneys - workshops?)
Harbor - at least, a 'Quarter' on the coast, and Possibly the Quarter that the Cothon replaces
Military? - we've seen a Quarter with its own, separate, wall around it, but that could also be some kind of Temple Compound, Administrative Center, Treasury - there are lots of reasons to control access to an separate area within a city.

This seems very incomplete. Once you start differentiating Quarters/Districts by type it's hard to see how you could not need at least Population/Food, Production, Gold, Science, Military, and Religious, and optimally, separate Naval and Air (Harbor/port and Airport), so I suspect there's a lot more 'Quarters' yet to be revealed or identified.

I would like to think that Emblematic Quarters could be either Replacements or Additional depending on the Faction/Quarter, but I'd bet they will go one way or the other exclusively. My question, though, is how much of the 'extra' capability of an Emblematic Quarter carries over into your later Factions. If it is 100% or nearly so, imagine a Renaissance/Industrial British Navy with Cothons!

 

[ehecatzin]

we saw a hippodrome but it was very small, so it was probably some sort of entertainment district. there was also a screenshot with a very small pyramid with a ballcourt, but that's not so clear if the "ballcourt" is that...or just blank spaces for more buildings, if that's the case it could be a religious district.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

we saw a hippodrome but it was very small, so it was probably some sort of entertainment district. there was also a screenshot with a very small pyramid with a ballcourt, but that's not so clear if the "ballcourt" is that...or just blank spaces for more buildings, if that's the case it could be a religious district.

Knowing so little about the actual Humankind mechanics of population and city management, we can't even be sure that Entertainment, Happiness or Amenities are a thing.
On the other hand, a Hippodrome would be a near-perfect Emblematic Quarter for Byzantium, and a Ball Court could be Emblematic to any of the Meso-American Factions: Olmec, Toltec, or Mayan.

I suspect, however, that there is some kind of requirement to keep people 'happy', or 'loyal', or something similar: governments and societies have spent too much time and energy on that throughout history and their efforts have been too intertwined with Religion, Entertainment, and Luxury Resources to leave it out of the game entirely. Whether that requires a separate Quarter or some kind of 'smaller' construction (Buildings?) remains, like so much, to be seen.

 

[Elhoim]

From the various screenshots, we have seen several Quarters in the same city that looked graphically at least, to be identical. Whether that means ALL Quarters can be duplicated, or just some, remains to be seen. There is definitely a visible distinction, though, between types of Quarters on the map.

So far, and someone who has scrutinized the screenshots and videos can probably address this better than I, we have seen at least 6 different Quarters:
City Center, with some kind of Palace structure - and it seems that many of those 'Palaces' will be unique to an individual Faction.
Population (the Quarters seen with a bunch of generic huts/houses/apartment buildings)
Production? (the Quarters seen with lots of smoking chimneys - workshops?)
Harbor - at least, a 'Quarter' on the coast, and Possibly the Quarter that the Cothon replaces
Military? - we've seen a Quarter with its own, separate, wall around it, but that could also be some kind of Temple Compound, Administrative Center, Treasury - there are lots of reasons to control access to an separate area within a city.

This seems very incomplete. Once you start differentiating Quarters/Districts by type it's hard to see how you could not need at least Population/Food, Production, Gold, Science, Military, and Religious, and optimally, separate Naval and Air (Harbor/port and Airport), so I suspect there's a lot more 'Quarters' yet to be revealed or identified.

There are science quarters, they have a circular plaza with the EL science symbol on them.

Knowing so little about the actual Humankind mechanics of population and city management, we can't even be sure that Entertainment, Happiness or Amenities are a thing.

And the PAX cards mention stability, so there should be something there...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

There are science quarters, they have a circular plaza with the EL science symbol on them.

View attachment 547229.

With what appears to be an observatory and telescope, which implies a different graphic for earlier Eras: nice find!

And the PAX cards mention stability, so there should be something there...

Stability sounds very much like a result (or lack of it: Instabiity) of Amenities or Loyalty, possibly a single Total covering the effects that Civ VI models separately.
Now the question is, what contributes to Stability: a separate Quarter, Buildings, Political/Civic/Social Policy choices?

As usual, find one bit of information answering one question, produce a half-dozen new questions . . .

 

[Krajzen]

Eh, first civ I am slightly disappointed with. I really don't see the need to make both Phoenicia and Carthage. Both were very culturally similar, their existence was entirely contained within first millenium BC and overlapped (Carthage even sent traditonal symbolic tribute to its mother Tyre), their city list should be identical except Lebanon, and worst of all they are identical to Civ series Carthage.

 

[mitsho]

Are we sure there are different quarters? Has that been confirmed? As I see it from the screenshots, there is only one type of quarter plus one emblematic per era per city you can place. It‘s the buildings inside that seem to differentiate the quarters. But of course we don‘t know if there are even buildings. But again, I can‘t see a city with 6 emblematic quarters AND additionally 6 yield-related quarters AND some population quarters on the side. The maps would need to be huge. We definitely need to know more about in game mechanics before continuing