Humankind Game by Amplitude

[CivLuvah]

I really hope we don't get Australia and Canada on release. With the USA a given it feels like too many Anglo cultures when theres so many options considering the era spans WW2 to present.

I'd rather get Australia for the base game and Canada for a DLC pack. Geopolitically Australia is a relatively major player in the Asia-Pacific region. Canada is more of a junior partner with the US.

I believe a reddit post made speculation of the picture of a ranger that popped up and theorized it might be Aussie, but could possibly be American as well.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

That was my assumption as well. If it was supposed to be more about present day, then I would have guessed Nigeria and Indonesia.



I don't see being Anglo/not as being important, but also as Mitsho mentioned I don't think this era spans to present, at least for the cultures. More important is representing cultures that made big moves relative to the others in the same era, that made big moves relative to themselves in other eras, and also to cover different playstyles. Canada would make sense as a diplomatic (mercantile) player and not much else, maybe agrarian? Australia is nice for agrarian, and there aren't many good options for exceptional agrarians during this era...

So I guess you could say Australia is more likely than Canada, but they both fill niches that are hard and good to fill, they aren't represented in earlier eras, and there are only so many big movers during the Cold War and Globalization, and obviously most of those are going to be remnants of the British Empire from the era before...that's just how history is. I look forward to them coming up with something clever, of course.

I'd hoped the era did not go all the way to the present but I think I do recall a dev mentioning things like Social Media coming up in the tech tree a long time ago so at the moment I'm assuming its going to be one huge era.

For a diplomatic choice in the Cold War era, a member of the non aligned movement would be better than Canada which was firmly in the NATO camp. With the strong Cold War focus Yugoslavia would be an interesting choice. Their partisan resistance was the most effective in WW2 from what I've seen and is an easy candidate for emblematic unit. Their courting of both sides in the Cold War could be rolled into a interesting diplomatic bonus that encourages keeping everyone at least somewhat friendly.

 

[8housesofelixir]

For a diplomatic choice in the Cold War era, a member of the non aligned movement would be better than Canada which was firmly in the NATO camp. With the strong Cold War focus Yugoslavia would be an interesting choice. Their partisan resistance was the most effective in WW2 from what I've seen and is an easy candidate for emblematic unit. Their courting of both sides in the Cold War could be rolled into a interesting diplomatic bonus that encourages keeping everyone at least somewhat friendly.

Speaking with Cold War, there was actually an economic and scientific major power that took a firm third position - South Africa.

Problem being it was the Apartheid South Africa.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That only works if they abandon their alphabetical order though. Otherwise, the Soviets or the United States or the already kinda confirmed Swedes would be at the end. Vietnam could be a surprise but I'm guessing (South/North) Korea got in before them.

Didn’t know they were doing it alphabetical (only got involved a little before zulu were announced)

Also, they could play with names to alter the order. Don’t want “USA” to be the late ‘nonreveal’. make it America... Have Saudis instead of Arabs, South Korea instead of Korea, etc.

 

[mitsho]

I like Yugoslavia as a choice, but I'm not sure when I think of my friends from Croatia, Serbia and Kosovo...

They can change a lot by the way they name them (I expect the Americans and the Soviets as well, it's just catchier), but nevertheless the options will be fewer towards the end. Of course, they don't have to do it alphabetically. It's no law.

 

[Krajzen]

Yugoslavia would be awful, it is a state by far the most famous for collapsing into internal genocide twice during 50 years, it overshadows all other claims to fame of theirs. Serbia is a very good medieval culture candidate (very long living state with good documentation and plenty of achivements) with Croatia and Bośnia being somewhat less exciting medieval cultures, and sadly that would be it for this area. Well, you could also do an industrial Serbia (1813 - 1918) as a militarist state.

Imho it will be

African country - agrarian or aestethe
America - merchant
Brazil - agrarian or aestethe
China - builder
India - agrarian or aestethe
Japan - aestethe, merchant or scientist
Korea - merchant or scientist
Soviet - expansionist
Sweden - scientist
Vietnam - militarist

Other possible choice would be Turkey - aestethe.

I would be really disapointed if Sweden for into modern era, because this way you make it unable to enter early modern or industrial eras when it was a great candidate, whereas in the modern era you could as well put Finland, Switzerland (scientist) or Czechoslovakia (builder) from Europe.

I also really hope we'll get Nigeria or Kenya instead of Ethiopia, because not only (let's be honest) Ethiopia in the period 1920 - 2020 was a miserable country, but also it can be put much more gloriously in the medieval, early modern or industrial eras.

Why have we got Zulu in the industrial era but not Ethiopia which actually avoided colonization succesfully - amazes me

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I still have a feeling it might not be worth taking a modern culture at that stage you might just want the extra fame from sticking to your industrial culture. Unless those cultures have really powerful bonuses. I'm interested to see what they will bring to make them appealing such as bonuses that are geared toward giving lagging players a boost and a shot at victory.

 

[Atlas627]

How could it be not worth it if the abilities are the same strength they have been? Just because the Legacy trait doesn't last for extra eras?

 

[FinalDoomsday]

You'd be giving up the extra fame that you could get from transcending as your industrial era culture. At that point in the game its the final sprint and you want to pick up as much fame as you can. Its all just speculation of course.

 

[Atlas627]

You might be getting more fame by having bonuses that synergize with the current era. Remember stars are worth more the sooner you get them too, so having more yields is another way of getting more fame.

I assume it will be balanced such that whenever you don't *need* current bonuses just to compete at unlocking Wonders, controlling territory, achieving the special fame achievements, and war, that it would be better to transcend. Or maybe it will balanced such that you will always want to pick a new Culture if an available one synergizes, and transcend if not. Either way, I don't think how close the era is to the end of the game should matter.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I would be really disapointed if Sweden for into modern era, because this way you make it unable to enter early modern or industrial eras when it was a great candidate, whereas in the modern era you could as well put Finland, Switzerland (scientist) or Czechoslovakia (builder) from Europe.

I'm afraid that we already confirmed the existence of a Contemporary Sweden at this point.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

You might be getting more fame by having bonuses that synergize with the current era. Remember stars are worth more the sooner you get them too, so having more yields is another way of getting more fame.

I assume it will be balanced such that whenever you don't *need* current bonuses just to compete at unlocking Wonders, controlling territory, achieving the special fame achievements, and war, that it would be better to transcend. Or maybe it will balanced such that you will always want to pick a new Culture if an available one synergizes, and transcend if not. Either way, I don't think how close the era is to the end of the game should matter.

A legacy trait from an earlier culture is getting you more milage because its effect is going for longer. A trait you get at the end needs to do a lot to justify getting it over just sticking with what you have and grabbing extra fame. You've had 5 eras to build up so you're unlikely to be short of certain yields if the opendev and Endless Legend is anything to go by.

I'm just thinking out loud here I could see that maybe being the case. The sooner the reveals start again the better!

 

[CivLuvah]

I was trying to search when the next Steam sale is when I stumbled upon this:
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/2957137317345106955

Now, the devs told us during Amplified that they may be considering another OpenDev soon. Could this be the right time to launch it? What are your thoughts?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yugoslavia would be awful, it is a state by far the most famous for collapsing into internal genocide twice during 50 years, it overshadows all other claims to fame of theirs. Serbia is a very good medieval culture candidate (very long living state with good documentation and plenty of achivements) with Croatia and Bośnia being somewhat less exciting medieval cultures, and sadly that would be it for this area. Well, you could also do an industrial Serbia (1813 - 1918) as a militarist state.

Imho it will be

African country - agrarian or aestethe
America - merchant
Brazil - agrarian or aestethe
China - builder
India - agrarian or aestethe
Japan - aestethe, merchant or scientist
Korea - merchant or scientist
Soviet - expansionist
Sweden - scientist
Vietnam - militarist

Other possible choice would be Turkey - aestethe.

I would be really disapointed if Sweden for into modern era, because this way you make it unable to enter early modern or industrial eras when it was a great candidate, whereas in the modern era you could as well put Finland, Switzerland (scientist) or Czechoslovakia (builder) from Europe.

I also really hope we'll get Nigeria or Kenya instead of Ethiopia, because not only (let's be honest) Ethiopia in the period 1920 - 2020 was a miserable country, but also it can be put much more gloriously in the medieval, early modern or industrial eras.

Why have we got Zulu in the industrial era but not Ethiopia which actually avoided colonization succesfully - amazes me

I would hope not Japan. Korea, AND Vietnam...Saudi arabia or Indonesia or another Africa should replace one of them.

(South Africa would be a good contemporary Africa option as well..possible as scientists)

 

[Atlas627]

A legacy trait from an earlier culture is getting you more milage because its effect is going for longer. A trait you get at the end needs to do a lot to justify getting it over just sticking with what you have and grabbing extra fame. You've had 5 eras to build up so you're unlikely to be short of certain yields if the opendev and Endless Legend is anything to go by.

I'm just thinking out loud here I could see that maybe being the case. The sooner the reveals start again the better!

Right, as I said, only the Legacy trait should be influenced by this, and it certainly seems like they know to make the Legacy traits stronger and stronger as you go through the game to compensate for that. As far as being short of certain yields, they just need to balance it so that you need to keep increasing your yields.

Certainly if they balance it poorly, then you'd be absolutely correct.

 

[mitsho]

Yugoslavia would be awful, it is a state by far the most famous for collapsing into internal genocide twice during 50 years, it overshadows all other claims to fame of theirs.

Oh come on, it wouldn't be that bad. Tito and his non-aligned states are certainly very emblematic for the Cold War. You are right though that this would be a completely avoidable minefield. So, no, we're not getting them

I still have a feeling it might not be worth taking a modern culture at that stage you might just want the extra fame from sticking to your industrial culture. Unless those cultures have really powerful bonuses. I'm interested to see what they will bring to make them appealing such as bonuses that are geared toward giving lagging players a boost and a shot at victory.

Just quoted for truth again. I feel it's also important to point out that this is not necessarily a bad thing! It allows them to look at the Industrial+Modern Line up to represent the modern world in its entirety. It gives more option and makes the late game more varied. And by god, we know from other strategy games that the end-game really needs that. So yes, I'm looking forward to totally overpowered (but only for civs that need catching up) cultures in the modern era. It's one of the things that excite me for Humankind vis-a-vis the current game. Make the Endgame Great Again!

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Oh come on, it wouldn't be that bad. Tito and his non-aligned states are certainly very emblematic for the Cold War. You are right though that this would be a completely avoidable minefield. So, no, we're not getting them



Just quoted for truth again. I feel it's also important to point out that this is not necessarily a bad thing! It allows them to look at the Industrial+Modern Line up to represent the modern world in its entirety. It gives more option and makes the late game more varied. And by god, we know from other strategy games that the end-game really needs that. So yes, I'm looking forward to totally overpowered (but only for civs that need catching up) cultures in the modern era. It's one of the things that excite me for Humankind vis-a-vis the current game. Make the Endgame Great Again!

Absolutely I agree I think modern might often end up with a mix of industrial/modern cultures I hope the modern cultures really give some powerful gear switching opportunities. It would be interesting if the legacy traits could offer more to lagging players and be less appealing to the front runners.

 

[Narcisse]

Oh come on, it wouldn't be that bad. Tito and his non-aligned states are certainly very emblematic for the Cold War. You are right though that this would be a completely avoidable minefield. So, no, we're not getting them

yeah, I think than the "polemical" argument is not that good for these sort of games, or we will close a lot of doors for a lot of cultures. Some which are already in the game in previous era, and made a lot of bad things (and good too). It's just history....
I understand than some choice must totally be avoided (nazis obviously).
But Yugoslavia don't seem more polemical to me than the contemporary history of Turkey, Vietnam, Israel, Soviets or WWII japanese which are often suggested. So I would say : Why not.
It would be singular and original, even if I think than they are unlikely.
I mean, the appeal for Yugoslavia must be really rare for the common audience.
And their story is not the sexiest to make discover to poeple as a "less-known" culture.

Anyway, I don't really know well the history of Yugoslavia ... but most the poeple I talked which came from one of the related countries,don't really have a problem with Yugoslavia itself, but more especially with the result of the break-up and the related genocides. In any case, it is an entity which no more exist, it's already easier to handle than countries of today

Well, if we want a modern representative of this part of the world, an industrial era balkanic nation state (to trenscend) is maybe the easiest way to handle it ?

 

[CivLuvah]

Anyway, I don't really know well the history of Yugoslavia ... but most the poeple I talked which came from one of the related countries,don't really have a problem with Yugoslavia itself, but more especially with the result of the break-up and the related genocides. In any case, it is an entity which no more exist, it's already easier to handle than countries of today

I don't know if it's reflective of the general present perception of Yugoslavia, but a lot of comments from former Yugoslav countries in videos playing Yugoslav popular music have a nostalgic tone to them. Granted some of them might be too young to remember the civil war.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

I don't know if it's reflective of the general present perception of Yugoslavia, but a lot of comments from former Yugoslav countries in videos playing Yugoslav popular music have a nostalgic tone to them. Granted some of them might be too young to remember the civil war.

Yugo-nostalgia is a real phenomenon that has been the subject of some study. It is much more common among Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Croatia and Kosovo it is much rarer and there is lots of possible reasons for that.

I stand by Yugoslavia being a good inclusion for Humankind but I concede the chances are slim