Humans not evolving any more?

stormbind said:
I am not sure what you mean by blaming. Is it fair to blame them for the absence of their genetic code in the next generation?
Hardly. A person owes nothing to evolution. Evolution sure as heck doesn't care about us, why should we give a damn about it? Besides, it's not like evolution has a purpose. The goal of evolution is not smarter humans or healthier humans or even more humans. It has no goal at all. It's simply a nature process.

Successful women have fewer children because in general, you can get a better standard of living by having fewer tykes running around. And I certainly can't fault anyone for wanting a better standard of living.
 
evolution is looking after itself by insuring DNA continues to persist
 
Maybe I am unique, but I would prefer my children to carry the best possible genetic code (colour blindness being a recessive trait, so not important ;))

LR said:
it's not like evolution has a purpose
Perhaps not, but we have a purpose, or we do not, whichever makes you feel most comfortable!
 
stormbind said:
Maybe I am unique, but I would prefer my children to carry the best possible genetic code (colour blindness being a recessive trait, so not important ;))
:confused: They're getting your genetic code, no? So what are you worried about? ;)
 
Not to be a party pooper, but this whole debate is irrelevant. Assuming our civilization goes on for another few hundred years, natural selection wont be a factor any more in human evolution. We're going to control our own evolution. Regardless of what the religious fundamentalists and other conservatives say, we're shortly going to begin tinkering with our gentic code to make ourselves 'better'. Also as humanity starts leaving Earth and living in space and on Mars, the Moon, and elsewhere, our bodies will inevitably begin to change. When humans begin living permantly in space (zero g environments), we'll mimic what happened to other mammals who returned to the oceans. Bone structure will change drastically, our circulatory and digestive systems, our brains, everything. These changes would happen anyway, but theres no doubt we'll help the changes along with genetic engineering. Who needs big powerful tree trunk legs in a zero g environment? Our legs will become shorter and thinner, but probably long, thin arms would be desirable. Two thousand years from now, we'll have several distinct human subspecies, just like existed in our distant past. Space based humans will be one group, and humans who settle other worlds and moons will adapt themselves to their environments. Meanwhile on Earth, there'll be 'designer' humans. Like clothing designers today who set new fashions, genetic designers will recreate humanity in a myriad of forms. If you got into a time machine and went ahead two thousand years, you would be greeted with the same fascination a time traveling Homo Erectus would be greeted today.

Either that, or Ive been reading too much science fiction.
 
Little Raven said:
:confused: They're getting your genetic code, no? So what are you worried about? ;)
Actually, they currently do not have any genetic code. Those poor kids are deprived :crazyeye:

I do not share Bozo's vision of the distant future. People in space are going to want to visit Earth, and vice-verse ;)
 
stormbind said:
I do not share Bozo's vision of the distant future. People in space are going to want to visit Earth, and vice-verse ;)
Whether they want to visit Earth or not is besides the point, the simply wont be able to. Astronauts and Cosmonauts, after just a few months in space have already adapted so much to zero gee, they have difficulty when they return to Earth. Theyre often in wheelchairs immediately after returning. So anyone who was born and raised in zero gee would die the moment they entered Earths gravity.
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Whether they want to visit Earth or not is besides the point, the simply wont be able to. Astronauts and Cosmonauts, after just a few months in space have already adapted so much to zero gee, they have difficulty when they return to Earth. Theyre often in wheelchairs immediately after returning. So anyone who was born and raised in zero gee would die the moment they entered Earths gravity.
Genetic engineering may help resist physical change, as may stimuli in the diet, or improved exercise, not to mention artificial gravity ;)
 
Another thing Bozo, genetic engineering aside, it would take a LOT longer than that for such drastic changes to occur.
 
stormbind said:
Genetic engineering may help resist physical change, as may stimuli in the diet, or improved exercise, not to mention artificial gravity ;)
What would be the point? People will naturally adapt to the environment they live in. Would you want to live on a planet with ten times Earths gravity? What for? Youve got your own world right here to which youre perfectly adapted. Space based humanity will have their own infinite 'world' to explore and settle in. Why crawl, when you can fly instead?;)
 
Lozzy_Ozzy said:
Another thing Bozo, genetic engineering aside, it would take a LOT longer than that for such drastic changes to occur.
Not really, like I said before, astronauts begin adapting to zero gee immediately. They begin losing muscle mass and bone density and their cardiovascular systems begin changing. If a human spent just a few years in zero gee, he'd never be able to return. Any children he had would be even more adapted to zero gee. Moving into space will be a one way ticket only. People who make the decision to move permanently into space will know ahead of time that they wont be coming back.
 
Bozo is correct. Where is Darwin's Natural Selection these days? Where does 'survival of the fittest' get a look in in the modern world? Anyone who wants offspring can have them and be virtually assured of their survival. Evolution is dead until we pick up the Genetic ball and run with it.
 
Bozo, i meant the shrinking of legs and growing of arms, that will take longer (especially the arms), AFAIK.
 
Yeah that might take a little longer, but even so, a kid born and raised in space would have incredibly thin legs and bones. Even if their length was more or less the same, theyd have practically no muscle mass or bone density. Their bones would snap like pencils if subjected to even half an Earth gee.
 
Have you guys never watched Star Trek? ;)
 
Evolution is probably largely halted in the modern human population, at least in developed countries. It isn't completely halted, however, just greatly slowed IMO. We certainly won't be a different species in 50,000 years as we were 50,000 years ago unless things change immensely.
 
brennan said:
Where is Darwin's Natural Selection these days?
See my first contribution to this very thread.
 
Cuivienen said:
Evolution is probably largely halted in the modern human population, at least in developed countries. It isn't completely halted, however, just greatly slowed IMO. We certainly won't be a different species in 50,000 years as we were 50,000 years ago unless things change immensely.
Humans appear to have started imagining (or perhaps dreaming) 50,000 years ago, but afaik this was not isolated to one continent, and Homo sapiens date back almost 200,000 years :eek:

Could aliens be playing an extended variant of Civilization? :mischief:
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Not really, like I said before, astronauts begin adapting to zero gee immediately. They begin losing muscle mass and bone density and their cardiovascular systems begin changing. If a human spent just a few years in zero gee, he'd never be able to return. Any children he had would be even more adapted to zero gee. Moving into space will be a one way ticket only. People who make the decision to move permanently into space will know ahead of time that they wont be coming back.
You're mistaken. The adaptations that astronauts undergo while living in space are not transmittable to their offspring; that is simply not how evolution works. What you're suggesting is akin to those of nineteenth century biologists who hypothesized that, for example, giraffes came to have long necks since their ancestors constantly had to stretch to reach higher trees. What likely happened is that the giraffes with shorter necks were at a disadvantage in finding enough food, and bred less (since they died more often) than their taller-necked relatives.

The exact same mechanism is the only way that humans could adapt (in the genetic sense) to living in space. Those who have a slight advantage in coping with a zero gravity environment would die less frequently, and thus breed more often. Note that I'm not suggesting that this will happen, only that this is the only way it could happen (barring genetic modifications). Your idea that their children would be endowed with better traits to cope with the environment simply because their parents were placed in a harsh environment is plainly and simply wrong.
 
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