Husky-01

[vmxa]

We do have a harbor on that continent but the seas won't allow it to be used on the main continent.

I am hoping that we can get import via the harbor around the other contient. There is a contigious path from England to Palma to us via coastal tiles as long as the town on the point does not expand.

I forget the name and the civ, but if we can get a town or two next to Palma that should do the trick. We may even be able to use the path as long as we are not at war and do not let any barbs park along the way.

In any event we probably need to secure that land.

 

[vmxa]

BTW I was looking at the old dotmap, we probably need a new one. Anyway I would not put any towns down on those two tiny islands near us. They will add nothing, but corruption to some other towns.

The AI can be kept off of them till our culture covers them. I rarely build on tiny islands as I do not want the corruption nor to defend them or build anything in them.

I may drop of a unit or two to prevent anyone else from using them. At higher levels you will soon know if they actually have resources as the AI will be heading for them, before it should. A tipoff that oil or Al is going to show up one day.

The placement of the towns in our tundra looks like it will be right on the trees, so if we can get them chopped first, that is a bonus 10 shields towards something in some town.

 

[vmxa]

"Originally Posted by Whomp
Does everyone understand why developing hills are not a big benefit at this point in the game?"

" CH - I don't know."

The main thing to consider is the number of worker turns to do things and to get to and from the tile. In the early game you have few workers and lots of roads needing to be built. Other improvements as well.

So you want to get the most for your manpower. Moving to an unroaded tile ends the turn for a worker. Also ends it crossing a river prior to engineering.

Some tiles use all the movement anyway, so you want to consider this. Worker task such as roads take longer on a hill so if it 4 turns to road a plains, it could be 6 to do a road on a hill.

If it is 8 for mine on a hill and 6 for road, that is 14 turns. What do I get for my 14 turns (I am not saying it is 14, as that depends on your traits)?

Well a road and a mine, but what does that mean? It means 1f2s1c, if the tile is in fact worked by a citizen. Well we could have done 3 roads in that time.

Those tiles could have yielded more, but maybe they would not be worked either. At the least, we now can traverse those tiles at 1/3 movement. This is good for defense and transfers.

I look at the town and see what makes sense. If I need to road that hill to allow travel, that is a consideration. If that hill has a resource I need now, that is a consideration, same for a lux.

If it did have a bonus, then it is more valuable than 1F1S1c (if a road and no mine). Maybe it is a case of I have a worker on a tile next to the hill and it has nothing better to do at this time and I want to send it in the direction of the hill anyway.

So it is not always wrong to road a hill, but the earlier it is in the game, the more likely it is to be less than an optimal choice.

This is why I sent the worker to the hill in the far eastern end. It had little else it could do usefully at that time, where it was. Not mention barb horses were about so I had to take care. The opposite was the case of the one in PunkBass. That tile was not going to have anyone work the mine, if it was built and there was lots left nearby to do.

 

[vmxa]

Once markets finish in Chukchi and Seville we should revolt to republic. Our mainland is reasonably well developed except for some hills that need roading and mines.
Chukchi do you understand why these two markets should be finished before changing governments?

"The markets should be finished before switching though because if you produce twice as much gold (or almost!), and multiply the extra by 1.5 you'll be able to run 3x the economy you had. However, armies cost more to support so you might get to need the gold."

The gold will not mean anything to us while in anarchy, it is the smiley faces that we want before we revolt.

During the revolution the money that would have gone into luxuries will not apply. We will only get the benefits of real lux and happy structures. After those apply will be have to make up for unhappy pop with jokers.

Given that, I would suggest that we peek at the worker roading to Nottingham. If it is will be done in a turn or two, wait for it and see if we get the lux imported. If not, not much lost, but if it is, then we gain a second lux on both sides as our will come to them.

With anarchy in mind, do not sell off any temples until we come out of anarchy, unless it will have no impact on that town. IOW if it only has 1 pop, or two with one already a joker.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Changed the harbour productions to worker.

70 AD: Republic researched, selected Engineering as the next technology to research. Didn't revolt. Marketplace in Chukchi Huskyville completed, not sure what to build next, so I put it on library. York finishes temple, put production on settler. Coventry finished temple, put production on worker. Asturias finishes temple, put production on barracks. Moved the worker that finished building a road on tundra to a hill near Toledo. What do I do with tundra and mountain tiles?? Don't know what to do with the swordsman so I fortified them in the cities. Don't know what to do with the filled gallies either. Traded Republic to Cleopatra for Monarchy and 11 gold, the other civilisations were only going to give Monarchy for Republic.

90 AD: Seville finishes marketplace, put it's production on library. The cultrual influence of Hastings increases. Began revolution. Ragnar wants currency, and I gave it to him.

110 AD: Civil disorder in Chukchi Huskyville, Puerto de Lobos, Seville, Punkbass Canal and Palma. The Iroquois are building the Art of War.

130 AD: Revolution ended, and in Republic.

150 AD: Seville, Punkbass Canal and Palma still in civil disorder. Valladolid finishes harbour, put production on barracks. Cordoba finishes worker, put production on worker. Trondheim finishes the Great Lighthouse, and the Vikings are building the Great Library. Salamanca builds the Great Wall. The Ottomans are building the Hanging Gardens. Increased luxuaries to 20% and decreased science to 30%.

170 AD: Order restored in Seville and Punkbass Canal. Dog Town builds barracks, and put production on Library. Palma still in civil disorder. The Vikings are building the Hanging Gardens. Increased luxuaries to 30% and decreased science to 20%. Found an iron resource on a peninsula near Iroquois territory.

190 AD: Toledo builds swordsman, put production on library. Order restored in Palma and Chukchi Huskyville had a celebration.

210 AD: Mircy Waters builds worker, put production on barracks. The Iroquois are building the Statue of Zeus.

230 AD: Chukchi Huskyville builds library, put production on harbour. Canterbury cannot build worker, so I changed production to barracks.

250 AD: Hastings builds worker, put production on barracks. Logrono builds catapult, put production on barracks. Teruel builds harbour, put production on barracks.

 

[scoutsout]

@Chukchi: I think I see some things in your log that tell me a couple of ways we might be able to help you improve your game. Two questions:

1. Do you know how to micromanage cities?
2. Would you like some help dealing with civil disorder/rioting?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

1. Do you know how to micromanage cities?

I don't know.

1. Would you like some help dealing with civil disorder/rioting?

Yes

 

[vmxa]

Chukchi Husky
"Changed the harbour productions to worker."

good move

"70 AD:
York finishes temple, put production on settler."

What is the size of the town at that time and what is its growth? If this town will not be size 3 before the settler can finish, then it is going waste shields.

This is because you will not get the settler until you have 3 pop in the town. So it will sit wasting shields while it grows to 3. So if you see it is size 1 and will get to size 3 in 20 turns and will make 30 shields in 15 turns, don't start a settler.

"Asturias finishes temple, put production on barracks."

Not sure on this as I cannot recall that town and if it has any potential to make troops any time soon. Sometimes it is better use weak places for cats or even nothing.

"Moved the worker that finished building a road on tundra to a hill near Toledo. What do I do with tundra and mountain tiles??"

That is very dependant on so many things. We will need roads on all tiles on the mainland and either mines or forest on the tundra (after engeneering). We may even want to plant and chop in a few tiles.

"Don't know what to do with the filled gallies either."

That is the turn players fault. We need to make a summary of intent for things that will need action.

"Traded Republic to Cleopatra for Monarchy and 11 gold, the other civilisations were only going to give Monarchy for Republic."

Ok, 11 gold is not worth it, so just do not trade this if they have nothing. They will be loathed to trade Monarcy, until the HG is built. Tech has a beaker cost, which is really gold. So if Rep is 400 beakers, it cost us 400 gold.
The cost is map and difficulty based for the most part.

 

[scoutsout]

Okay Chukchi, here are a few pointers on empire management. I took the previous save and played forward 2 turns, so these should be similar to the turns you just played.

First, it is really helpful to use a utility program that will alert you to certain things in the game. Personally, I use an older version of Dianthus' MapStat. This screenshot is taken from the second turn. The trading situation has changed, as we have discovered Republic. The happiness warning is from London, which is still resisting.

Perhaps one of your teammates would be good enough to help you get a good utility and set it up.

The next turn I get a warning of unhappiness at Seville, so I zoom to the city. Here you will see another modification that helps with empire management - the "smileys" next to the citizen icons. (I forgot where I got these... so @Team: If Chukchi wants them...hopefully one of you use them and can tell him where to get them...)

As you can see from the screenshot, I'm about to take a citizen off the wine tile near Dog Town and turn it into a specialist.

Here I've converted the citizen into an entertainer (or "clown").

By clicking on the entertainer icon, we can change it to a tax collector or scientist, and inspect the results.

This is what Seville looks like with a Tax Collector:

...and here is what it looks like with a Scientist.

All of this is prior to the revolution. I played another turn to get into anarchy, to show you something else. Here's a shot of my F1 (Domestic Advisor) screen. Pay no attention to the advisors' faces... mine are... different than most.

Anyway, a trick here is that you can sort your cities according to the type of management you're doing. You can sort by production if you click on the shields icon, or you can sort by population if you need to do a happiness check. Since the happiness problems will be the worst in the larger towns, this helps us find the trouble spots quickly.

Here is a technique for solving happiness problems in towns that don't have surplus food. You can use these micromanaging techniques to move citizens to different tiles. This is Punkbass Canal before micromanaging:

...and here it is after micromanaging:

@Chukchi: Does this help? Please ask any questions you may have.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

What is the size of the town at that time and what is its growth?

The town is a size 3, I don't know about growth.

Ok, 11 gold is not worth it, so just do not trade this if they have nothing. They will be loathed to trade Monarcy, until the HG is built. Tech has a beaker cost, which is really gold. So if Rep is 400 beakers, it cost us 400 gold.
The cost is map and difficulty based for the most part.

I'm sorry.

 

[vmxa]

Chukchi Husky. please note this are just FYI and may only reflect my style not everyones. As such they could be wrong.

"90 AD: The cultrual influence of Hastings increases. Began revolution. Ragnar wants currency, and I gave it to him."

Remember it was mentioned that we may want to sell of the temples after they expand the borders and come out of anarchy.

Now the big thing. We do not give anything for a demand and we would love to see them declare on use and give us war happiness. We sure do not want currency being sold by them and not us.

It cost 426 beakers and is an important tech that brings markets. Those will help the AI too much and I do not even trade all the time. It is often the last tech they need to get to the next age.

"110 AD: Civil disorder in Chukchi Huskyville, Puerto de Lobos, Seville, Punkbass Canal and Palma. The Iroquois are building the Art of War."

Ok we screwed up on this and it is not your fault. I should have taken the time to mention that after you revolt, you need to visit all towns to correct for unhappiness. I sort of alluded to it, but I needed to state it emphatically.

"130 AD: Revolution ended, and in Republic."

After coming out of anarchy, you need to also visit all towns to put some of the jokers back to work.

 

[scoutsout]

@Chukchi: Don't apologize for making a mistake... you're here to get better at the game, and making mistakes is part of the learning process. Your teammates are just trying to help you learn and get better. Just keep trying, that's all we can ask. I hope you caught my empire management post above...and I hope it helps.

@Team: One thing I noticed when I shadowed 2 of Chukchi's turns... you guys haven't built any embassies with anybody. Is there a reason for this?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I guess I messed it up.

 

[vmxa]

Chukchi Husky
"The town is a size 3, I don't know about growth."

sounds good then. The growth can be see in the city view. It will show +2 food or whatever it is getting. Then if it has a granary and all English towns will, then the growth is twice the speed.

You see the food box and it shows how much food is needed to grow. With a granary the box is 1/2 full all the time. So count teh empty boxes and divide by the + food number.

"I'm sorry."

No need, it is a learning game, so now you can evaluate trades better. You can also go ahead and hold you turnset any time and ask for input, if you are not sure and you feel it is a big issue.

What to do with a worker is not a big issue, but giving a tech for demands can be.

Anyway I don't know anyone that does not mess up in a game and especially an SG. You are not playing it all the way through and can forget what is going on when you pick it up. So things are over looked by the best players.

If you doubt it read some of the threads. You name the good player and I will find you many times when they forogt this or that. No one is perfect.

 

[vmxa]

Now is as good as a time to start squeezing them in as the cash allows.


BTW CH you may want to consider weither you need a barracks in every town as this is not an AW game and is only at Monarch. Barracks cost shields and you pay maint on them, so having 20, when 5 or so is enough will hurt a bit.

Some of those towns will not be making units, so save a bit.

 

[scoutsout]

I guess I messed it up.

Don't worry about it Chukchi, it's nothing that can't be fixed or overcome. Between revolting to a new government and the tech situation, that was a tough round for a new player. Tech trading is one of the tougher parts of this game. You'll get better at it.

 

[vmxa]

They are PopHeads and can be found in the creation forum. I love them as I play without the tools most of the time.

I loved Mapstat and CivAssist II. CAII will cause me save issue as it often fails due to CAII having the folder accessed.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

BTW CH you may want to consider weither you need a barracks in every town

I don't know what I was supposed to build.

 

[Whomp]

I don't know what I was supposed to build.

I think what vmxa is saying is if a city can not produce a lot of shields then it a barracks may not make sense. For instance, if a city can only produce 2 shields then it would take 20 turns to finish a barracks (40 shields) and another 15 turns to finish a veteran swordsman (30 shields). That's 35 turns for 1 veteran swordsman. Instead of swordsman maybe that city is better off producing catapults. Catapults don't need a barracks so you could make 3 catapults (20 shields apiece) and be halfway through finishing a 4th by the time it would take to finish 1 vet swordsman. Do you see the math in that?

barracks (40 shields) + swordsman (30 shields) = 1 veteran swordsman (70 shields)
catapults (20 shields) x 3 = 3 catapults (60 shields)


BTW nice work on the turns CH. As Scout said those were really tough turns to manage. We are in good shape! Punkbass will be happy our new government is set up.

These are all helpful illustrations given to you from vmxa and Scout.

Since your turns were some of the hardest to think about maybe it might be good practice is to try some of the new techniques you've learned from vmxa and Scout's recommendations and have them evaluate what they taught separately from our game.

What do you think?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I don't know.