Husky-01

[Whomp]

You're smart CH. It's really up to you if want to use some of the new lessons learned but I'd bet you'd learn a lot if you work with them on trying some of their recommendations. vmxa and Scout are very patient and have helped a lot of players improve.

If you don't want to that's fine because the save is going to move to Punkbass either way. If it were me I'd take them up on the help and take it one turn at a time.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm back, where are we in the rotation?

 

[Chukchi Husky]

You're smart CH. It's really up to you if want to use some of the new lessons learned but I'd bet you'd learn a lot if you work with them on trying some of their recommendations. vmxa and Scout are very patient and have helped a lot of players improve.

If you don't want to that's fine because the save is going to move to Punkbass either way. If it were me I'd take them up on the help and take it one turn at a time.

I should play the save again?

 

[vmxa]

You could do that and post with a differnt name and then see how it compares with your first experience. That way it won't be confused with the original save.

Just rename it as say my_second_try and it will be obvious to all. It would be interesting to see if the Vikes actualy declare after you turn them down.

Look at the F3 screen to see how the advisor see us compared to the Vikes. They do not always declare when you refuse a demand.

You may even want to look at where they are in the map and who is near them. If it is someone other than the Ottoman, you may want to think about bribing them to join a war effort with your tech.

I tend not to do that at Monarch as I know I can roll over them, but it may be a way to keep two civs busy, while we decide who to hurt first.

Anyway you will then know what to do with those swords in the boats.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I did it again, but I saved it over the first one. The Vikings never made the demand.

Changed the harbour productions in Hastings and Mircy Waters to worker, the one in Canterbury to catapult (Is Canterbury supposed to be a scientist?). Built emabssies in Trondheim, Thebes, Salamanca, Kyoto and Istanbul.

70 AD: Republic researched, set Engineering as the next technology to discover. Didn't revolt. Chukchi Huskyville builds marketplace, and put the next build as library. York completes it's temple, the city will reach size three in three turns, and will complete a settler in thirty, so I put it on settler. Coventry and Asturias each build a temple, and put both of them on catapults. Moved the worker that completed a road to Frozen Tundra to another tundra tile to build another road. Moving the swordsman in Chukchi Huskyville and the one near Punkbass Canal to the nearest empty galley (What do we do with the warriors?), and moving the galley closer to them. Moving the empty galley to the mainland. Leaving the filled galleys alone for now. Moving the swordsman near Mircy waters to London and fortified it (Does it help with removing resistance?). Exploring the Iroquois coastline with a galley. Didn't trade Republic.

90 AD: Seville completes marketplace, and put it's next build on library. Hasting's cultural influence increases. Keeping the temple for the anarchy. Moved a swordsman onto that galley. Began the revolution.

110 AD: The Iroquois are building the Art of War. Chukchi Huskyville has five unhappy citizens, gave it two entertainers. Seville has six unhappy citizens, gave it two entertainers. Puerto de Lobos has three unhappy citizens, gave it one entertainer. Punkbass Canal has four unhappy citizens, gave it one entertainer. Palma has two unhappy citizens, gave it one entertainer. Moved the second swordsman into the galley, and moving the galley to the coast with the other filled galleys.

130 AD: Civil disorder ended everywhere, resistance ended in London and now out of anarchy and in Republic. Putting the entertainers back to work except in Seville and Palma (Palma now has zero growth). -11 net gain so I reduced science down to 40% for a net gain of +9.

150 AD: Valladolid builds harbour, and put it's next build on Swordsman. Cordoba builds a worker, and put it's next build on catapult. The Vikings are building the Great Library, completed the Great Lighthouse in Trondheim, the Iroquois completed the Great Wall in Salamanca, are building the Art of War, and the Ottomans are building the Hanging Gardens. Moved a galley into Puerto de Lobos for now. Moving the new worker to help build the road to Nottingham.

170 AD: Dog Town builds barracks, put it's next build on library.

190 AD: Toledo builds swordsman, and keeping it building swordsman. Cultural influence increase in York, Coventry and Asturias, and selling off their temples, including the one in Hastings. Made an entertainer in Coventry. Moving Toledo's new swordsman to Puerto de Lobos.

210 AD: Mircy Waters builds a worker, put it's next build on catapult. The Iroquois are building the Statue of Zeus.

230 AD: Chukchi Huskyville builds the library, put it's next build on harbour. Civil disorder in Coventry, made an entertainer. Increase luxuaries to 20% with a +1 net gain.

250 AD: Recieved contact from the Mongols, complaining about troops in their territory, and they declared war on Egypt. Hastings builds a worker, and put it's next build on catapult. Order restored in Coventry. Logrono builds a catapult, and keeping it's build on catapult. Teruel builds a harbour, and put it's next build on swordsman. Thebes completes the Temple of Artemis. The Iroquois are still building the Art of War. Karakorum completes the Hanging Gardens. The Japanese are building the Great Library. The Ottomans are building the Great Library. Moving Logrono's new catapult to Puerto de Lobos. Built an embassy in Karakorum.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Sounds like an improvement. Good work. Lets go with the replay.

 

[vmxa]

Chukchi Husky
"I did it again, but I saved it over the first one. The Vikings never made the demand."

Sounds fine. Two things that control the outcome of a replayed turn 1) if the preserve random seed is selected (I did not check) 2) the order of events.

So if the Seed is preserved, that means you get the same rng for a given event, if it is reloaded and played again. Well is only true if the moves are done exactly as the first time.

So any change of sequence of say moving units or combat, could alter the outcome. This because the RNG is control by the Seed. So if it is a low number the first time, it will be for the retry.

If you have the same battle, you get the same rng and the same reults. If you do something, like fight with another unit and then figth with that original one, you no longer have rng number 1 for that battle, you have rng 2.

This means any change of doing things that use the rng, will change the outcome.

"Changed the harbour productions in Hastings and Mircy Waters to worker, the one in Canterbury to catapult (Is Canterbury supposed to be a scientist?). Built emabssies in Trondheim, Thebes, Salamanca, Kyoto and Istanbul."

I did not see the save, so I am not sure what the scientist is doing. If the town did not have enough happy faces, then someone created a specialist to try to make it balanced. This can be done with any specialist. Often you must use a joker (entertainer), but sometimes it is fine with a taxman or a scientist.

The tax or beakerhead are better if you can get away with them as they give us something. Which one to use (tax or sci) depends on what you are needing at the time. Tax is 2 gold, sci is 3 beakers. So you gan more from beakers, but if you cannot use the beakers, then gold is better.

The case for not being able to use beakers is if you either have research to zero or more cokplex: if the 3 beakers over time would not impact the time to research a tech. This is something for deep play. You must find the beaker cost for the tech and track how many you have accumulated and then divide the amount left by turns to see what shakes out.

CivAssist can do this for you in part. I once wrote an xls tool to do it.

 

[vmxa]

Chukchi Husky
" Moving the swordsman in Chukchi Huskyville and the one near Punkbass Canal to the nearest empty galley (What do we do with the warriors?), and moving the galley closer to them. Moving the empty galley to the mainland. Leaving the filled galleys alone for now. Moving the swordsman near Mircy waters to London and fortified it (Does it help with removing resistance?). Exploring the Iroquois coastline with a galley. Didn't trade Republic."

Well warriors are tricky item. If they are vets, then we can upgrade them, if we have the cash to spare. If they are not vets, but are regulars, we may not want to upgraded them. It is not always yes or no. If I am going to be needing some extra punch now in the location of the regular sword, I may upgrade it anyway.

Yes MP's do help with resistance. They also can help with happiness, but it is not the case for us as we are now going to be in Republic. The civlipedia shows what governments can use MP's and if not.

On the ships loaded, we probably want to move them to some place to hurt someone. We are going to need to get the land by Palma and it will need to be defended. The question is do we start a war now or drop a few towns down first?

QUOTE]

 

[vmxa]

One other point that could have been mentioned on the question of Embassies. In the main they are good as they make relations better. You must have one to spy and to steal.

So the only questions to me are is this an always war game or not? If it is, then embassies are not going to allowed (usually).

If it is not, then we know we want to build them at some point. That point is the other question. I may be tempted to get them as soon as I can, but the brake on that is the cost.

I do not want to spend all I have to get them right away as I may need some gold for something. I may also want to time the embassy to gain more useful information.

This is a nuiance that comes into play at times. One example is if I am going for a wonder and I want to wait till I plant the embassy to see how far along they are on it. This only works if the wonder is going up in their capitol.

I have used this to discover that I have no chance to built it and can go on to something else. Mostly in games I am monitoring in the General or Strategy forums. I have also used it to find that I need to shave off a turn or two to be first.

 

[vmxa]

I see that we are getting the lux imported as I thought we could. We need to take Birka at the start of any war to keep that open.

We dropped the ball and I should have loaded the save before now to see this one. It was mentioned in passing about pop rushing the temple in London.

We cannot do that after we go into republic, so we missed the boat on pop rushing in England. Same for the settler. Now we need gold. This is the type of considerations you have to think about before making too many embassies.

I would like to rush one or the other and the temple is now the cheapest and will gain of the horses faster.

Note that Palma will need to get a harbor to get either lux or the horses. So please switch the cat to a harbor.

 

[vmxa]

We are running -7 with 54 gold and need about 64 gold to rush the temple. So we can fix the minus right away.

We have not mentioned the FP as far as I know and it is an option now.

Valladolid has no barracks and is making a sword. Switch it to courthouse/market or lib.

Seville +5 food at size 8. Switch joker to taxman. A grassland tile is irrigated, so that can be mined at some point.

Huskyville needs to switch. It does not need a harbor as it has 12 tiles to use now and a temple will be usefull to keep it happy at size 12.

Logrono move pop to coast to gain food and 3 gold, switch cat to courthouse maybe? Need to lower corruption. could go with market, but need to net something.

Teruel pop to coast as it was not growing. Switch to lib as we need to pop borders to get that fish. That is why it was founded there.

Could use those workers there to chop and rush things. Note that those towns are not going to net much with out some help. Courts or an FP or something. We should send some workers back to the core as those cities will be the most useful and hence need to not wait for improvements.

Bird has workers doing mines on hills that it does not need right now. They could have chopped the trees and the aqua would be done already.

Note that is impotant to get to size 7 now to gain the extra unit support.

C_H if you feel like it and have the time, look at the towns with these ideas in mind and see if you see anything that looks like it makes sense. I have to be checked as I can be wrong or way off base as easily as not. The main thing is these are ideas to be examined to see if they have merit.

I found a few towns that could have citizens changed to gain gold and get us into a positive cash flow.

We may want to consider lowering the research as well. It will probably be required soon anyway.

We now are facing the fact that we cannot just make troops and workers will no concern about the unit cost. It is almost the same level as our research and corruption is almost twice the unit support.

Five more settlers could be used right now and with those comes the need for even more workers.

 

[Whomp]

Very nice work Chukchi. You write very good logs too.
BTW I think you learned a few things from the first time versus the second time. You did great and you're a quick learner!

In the future it might be cool to play the round and then try it again if you want to do it for practice.
Whomp
Chukchi Husky--Just went.
Punkbass2000-- up
Birdjaguar-- on deck
Mirc
<Lurker>

 

[scoutsout]

Built emabssies in Trondheim, Thebes, Salamanca, Kyoto and Istanbul.

I suspect this had something to do with the fact that Ragnar didn't come demanding a tech the second go-round.

(What do we do with the warriors?), and...

That's the tough part about Republic. What you can't upgrade, you should generally disband. Check F3, and see if your military is costing you gold. If not, wait and upgrade. If the army is costing you gold... it may be worth moving the warrior to a city an disbanding it for a few shields...

You held off the riots...and ended resistance in London.

230 AD: Chukchi Huskyville builds the library, put it's next build on harbour. Civil disorder in Coventry, made an entertainer. Increase luxuaries to 20% with a +1 net gain.

Don't overlook the value of the tax collector... I should have mentioned this in my micromanaging post. All you need to do is make the number of happy citizens equal the number of unhappy citizens. If you can hire a tax collector instead of a clown, you'll get a few more gold pieces in the treasury....

250 AD: Recieved contact from the Mongols,

This is good. If I recall, the Monglols are the last remaining unknown civ in the game.

...and they declared war on Egypt.

And you knew this, because you built those embassies.

Thebes completes the Temple of Artemis. The Iroquois are still building the Art of War. Karakorum completes the Hanging Gardens. The Japanese are building the Great Library. The Ottomans are building the Great Library.

This sounds like a "wonder cascade". It's what happens when one civ completes a wonder, and all of the other civs that were building that wonder are forced to build something else. In this case Egypt completed the Temple of Artemis, so the other civs started another available wonder.

In any event, it looks like you're getting better and learning Chukchi, and I (for one) am enjoying it.

 

[gmaharriet]

Chukchi Husky, I think your wolf avatar is just lovely. I admire wolves very much.

I've been in your situation and needing help to learn how to play better. Both Whomp and Scoutsout have helped me a lot in succession games. It's ok to stop and save in the middle of a turnset to come to the board and ask questions. I do it all the time, and they are very helpful. Then I can continue playing my turns with new information.

If you ask questions before you finish all 10 turns, sometimes you can change things to make it better sooner. You're learning, and that's what's important.

Good luck!!!

 

[vmxa]

Yes the warriors are a hard call. The problem is that swords are about to be very much less valuable. Many are going to be having pikes about now. Worse is that Japan will have one of the nasties UU's soon.

Not to menton the Vikes getting Zerks. They both need attention quickly and there will be no money to upgrade warriors. But if you disband a bunch of warriros now, you can probably expect demands.

Maybe that would be good in the case the Ragnar, get him to declare and use those swords. Since horses have not been available, no fast units for defending and no upgrades for knights either.

In any event the regular warriors and maybe the reg archer could be disbanded. Anything you do at this juncture is a close call.

BTW what do you think about tundra and trees? I sort of like to clear them of trees, unless we having need of them for slowing down attackers. The shields are nice and it is faster to road and rail mined tiles, than forested ones.

 

[punkbass2000]

260AD: Told Osman to get out of dodge.

270AD: PdL completes Marketplace. Begins Library.
Seville completes Library. Begins Harbor.

290AD: PbC completes Aqueduct. Begins Harbor.
BjH completes Aqueduct. Begins Granary.

300AD: Seville completes Harbor. Begins Granary.
Nottingham completes Temple. Begins Courthouse.

310AD: Two Archers approach Palma.
FT completes Temple. Begins Harbor.

320AD: Engineering discovered. Research on Feudalism begun.
Viking Archers enter our territory. I demand they leave. Ragnar declares war. One Archer bombarded to 2/3, other decimated by Swordsman with no losses.

330AD: Damaged Archer retreats.

340AD: PbC completes Harbor. Begins Granary.

350AD: PdL completes Library. Begins Harbor.
Main strike force unloaded South of Trondheim.

 

[Whomp]

Very nice PB!
Vikings must pay for their insurrection. How many were in the stack at the Viking capital?

Chukchi just so you're aware when the AI declares war on you the population actually becomes happier. It's called war happiness.

Whomp
Chukchi Husky
Punkbass2000
Birdjaguar--up
Mirc --On deck
<Lurker>

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Chukchi just so you're aware when the AI declares war on you the population actually becomes happier. It's called war happiness.

I always thought that all wars made the population unhappy.

 

[vmxa]

Remember that the war means no more imported incense or horses. You have to take out those coastal towns now.

Just wondering if you really want a granary at this stage of the game, especially in a size 9?

You really need more troops to get Ragnar done quickly, not more granaries and harbors.

I see a lot of ugly spears in the capitol and more being made? You cannot attack anything with spears. Did anyone get any horses while they were available?

 

[Whomp]

I always thought that all wars made the population unhappy.

Nope. When a country declares war on us like they did the population gets war happiness for a certain period of time. That's why it's a good idea to try and get the AI to declare war on you (like Punkbass did) instead of declaring on them.

The big thing right now is to make sure we have more winning battles than losing battles when fighting. The more units we lose the more unhappy the population will become. Using hills, rivers and mountains become very important because they give us extra defense if we are attacked. The catapults will help a lot too because they may make a veteran spearman into a 2/4 spearman.

These a few other things that make the population unhappy during war. Having units inside their borders too long, having their units on our land too long and probably the worst one is if one of our cities is razed.

What needs to be watched carefully each turn during war is the happy/unhappy faces in each city. If there's more unhappy than happy then Birdjaguar will need to either raise the luxury tax or convert a citizen to a specialist. In the high commerce/shield cities it's better to move the luxury tax because you want all citizens to keep working. In a small remote village that's very corrupt we might use a specialist (either a scientist or taxman is preferable) instead because what they're making isn't as important.

Interesting, huh?