I can't win any game! please help...some other strategy.

[portz]

I'm just new in the game and I played it just a few times at noble difficulty (because it's the balanced level i think). I can get along with other civs in the beginning, but after having 4-5 cities at 150 turns, I messed up always. Here's some of my problems:

*what to research next?
-after researching the basic techs, I don't know what must be the next. So I will just choose random tech that I think is cool and will help me.

*how many workers do I have to get?
-is there any ideal number of workers with respect to the number of cities you have? so that you can improve tiles that's just right and without overdoing improving tiles when cities not working on it.

*will I be going to focus on wonders or military?
-sometimes when I play, I thought that it will be a peaceful game all the way so I neglect military and focus on building wonders for cultural border to expand fast. but as the game goes on, one or two civs will declare war on me and i will be left unprepared.
-if i focus on military, i end up losing money and my units lost 1 by 1.

*i don't know when to accept open borders, or even when to declare war to somebody.

*i don't know what civic to use.
-i'm just using slavery and hereditary rule but i dont know if that's enough to win the game.

*when i was about to destroy one civ, my military was focus on attacking his cities. then some civ will declare war against me because he's telling that he's a friend of the civ I attacked. Leaving some of my cities with only 1 or 2 defender, then I end up losing again.

I can't even finished 1 whole game. if I just got 2 or 1 city left, I quit.

Please help, what do I need to do or to think when playing?

 

[Antilogic]

I learned by reading either the strategy articles in this forum or some games posted online here.

Based on your OP, I have a few hints/comments:

*what to research next?
-after researching the basic techs, I don't know what must be the next. So I will just choose random tech that I think is cool and will help me.

Depends heavily on your map and your overall strategy. Early on, I prioritize the worker techs (especially Bronze Working), then Pottery, Writing, Alphabet, Currency, and Code of Laws. All of those techs give you important early buildings (granaries, libraries, courthouses) as well as enable you to build up your economy and trade technologies/cash with other Civs. From there, it's hard to generalize, but I tend to go the military route, get new units, and trade for other stuff.

*how many workers do I have to get?
-is there any ideal number of workers with respect to the number of cities you have? so that you can improve tiles that's just right and without overdoing improving tiles when cities not working on it.

It's generally recommended you have between 1 and 2 workers per city. Getting your workers out as early as possible is important to boosting your tile yields--you don't want to be working unimproved tiles.

I usually start with a worker as my first build--that's how important they are.

*will I be going to focus on wonders or military?
-sometimes when I play, I thought that it will be a peaceful game all the way so I neglect military and focus on building wonders for cultural border to expand fast. but as the game goes on, one or two civs will declare war on me and i will be left unprepared.
-if i focus on military, i end up losing money and my units lost 1 by 1.

Targeting a few useful wonders can be really helpful for your economy. Instead of focusing on these and using them as crutches at this point, though, I wouldn't focus on these right now and instead look at building solid economies with the right buildings and defending yourself.

It sounds like you are having economic troubles if you can't maintain an army in the field. What do your slider percentages look like--are you losing money when you are running 0% science? Are you losing more money on city maintenance or on your army (check the financial adviser, also look at your sliders in the top left)?

I generally have one obsolete unit garrisoned in interior cities, 2-3 units in any border cities (usually an archer-type unit defender and some counter units like spears or axes), and then my field army, which contains all my offensive units (the mounted and siege units, plenty of mainline melee or gunpowder as well). That's usually close to the borders of the more dangerous AIs (unless I'm at war).

*i don't know when to accept open borders, or even when to declare war to somebody.

Generally, I always accept open borders. It lets your merchants trade and gives extra commerce, and it doesn't hurt you at all. Sure, the AI maps your land, but whatever. You can send a scout to map theirs.

Declaring war can be tricky--I look at the power ratings (check the intel tab) of my empire, the target, and any of his potential allies (you can follow that on the foreign adviser). Generally, AIs will be friendly with each other (and will defend each other) if they have the same religion, or if they share favored civics.

*i don't know what civic to use.
-i'm just using slavery and hereditary rule but i dont know if that's enough to win the game.

Both solid choices in the early game, but you will want to develop and use the other ones as well. Organized Religion is solid for most of the game, enabling you to build up economic buildings quickly. Vassalage (the feudalism one) and Theocracy are great for improving armies, Bureaucracy is all-around solid in the mid-game. The economic ones aren't available until the mid-game, so don't worry about those now. People typically favor Free Market or State Property, and there are strategies organized around each. Late-game, cottage-type players favor Universal Suffrage, Free Speech, and Emancipation. Specialist-type players will keep Representation and Caste System, maybe Pacifism. Free Religion can be either useful or detrimental from a diplomatic perspective, since religion figures heavily into your relations with the AIs, and the science bonus is pretty small.

*when i was about to destroy one civ, my military was focus on attacking his cities. then some civ will declare war against me because he's telling that he's a friend of the civ I attacked. Leaving some of my cities with only 1 or 2 defender, then I end up losing again.

That's tough, sounds like an ally got called in or the Civ you were attacking offered himself as a vassal to a more powerful Civ. In the short run, you might want to peace out at this point and consolidating your current gains, then look at attacking another AI to expand.

 

[portz]

@Antilogic
Thank you sir for your help.

-yeah I got 0% research with 0 gold and (-) negative income. I don't know. maybe I'm short with finance tiles with lots of military units.

I have a follow up questions sir:

*is there any advantage for the civ that is the founder of religion? I mean for example civA is the founder of buddism. then civB converted to buddism, is there an advantage?

 

[duckstab]

@Antilogic
Thank you sir for your help.

-yeah I got 0% research with 0 gold and (-) negative income. I don't know. maybe I'm short with finance tiles with lots of military units.

I have a follow up questions sir:

*is there any advantage for the civ that is the founder of religion? I mean for example civA is the founder of buddism. then civB converted to buddism, is there an advantage?

If you found a religion the game will pick one of your cities as the holy city of that religion. Later, if you get a Great Prophet they can build the religion's shrine in that city, which gives you income for each city in which that religion is present. Of course, you can get the same benefits by letting the AI found a religion and then conquering the holy city.

You will, of course, get diplomatic benefits from sharing a religion with an AI. But the benefit isn't any greater to the founder.

In general, going out of your way to found an early religion is one of the classic beginner's mistakes to avoid. The technologies for founding Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism are off the critical path and you often end up losing the race with the AI, meaning you've wasted a lot of research. I actually don't make a special effort to found a religion at all, though I'll sometimes end up founding Confucianism, Christianity, or Taoism more or less by accident. However, some experienced players may disagree about this.

 

[Htadus]

@Antilogic
Thank you sir for your help.Yup, Antilogic gave excellent logical advice

-yeah I got 0% research with 0 gold and (-) negative income. I don't know. maybe I'm short with finance tiles with lots of military units. Open your economical advisor screen, one of the "F#" keys. See where your gold is going, then make correction

I have a follow up questions sir:

*is there any advantage for the civ that is the founder of religion? I mean for example civA is the founder of buddism. then civB converted to buddism, is there an advantage?

Yes. but it is not just one way. Both civs develop + diplomatic points for sharing the common religion.

BTW, I do not know if Antilogic mentioned this and I miss reading it. One of the most important things you can do is have an idea of what kind of win you want. then look at the tech tree and see if there is a tech(s) that will help you get there faster.

 

[Antilogic]

@Antilogic
Thank you sir for your help.

-yeah I got 0% research with 0 gold and (-) negative income. I don't know. maybe I'm short with finance tiles with lots of military units.

I'd check to make sure your cities are working tiles that yield high commerce (early on, usually things like floodplain-cottages or special resources like gold and silver). Plantation resources also yield decent commerce, except for sugar (it gives +2 food and +1 commerce, if I recall correctly). But that isn't available until you get the Calendar tech.

Also, where are your cities located relative to each other? Are you placing them very far away from the capital? Do you expand in a line rather than in a tighter ball/ring-like shape? That could be increasing your city maintenance costs.

One common trick is to use libraries and scientist specialists to generate research (so you can keep up in technology) while expanding. Then let your commerce slider fall close to 0% as you expand, but as long as you turn a profit you can recover and gain an advantageous position in terms of land.

I have a follow up questions sir:

*is there any advantage for the civ that is the founder of religion? I mean for example civA is the founder of buddism. then civB converted to buddism, is there an advantage?

The relations bonus is based on the AI personality and not on who holds the holy city, so in this case it doesn't matter--from a diplomacy perspective, one is as good as the other.

If you have the holy city and a great prophet, you can make a shrine that gives you +1 gold for every city your religion has spread to. So there is a financial advantage if you generate great prophets.


EDIT: @Htadus: That's the joy of the name.

 

[crazyotto65]

Build cottages and make sure your citizens are working them! More commerce is the key to everything (well, almost eerything..)!

 

[Htadus]

In general, going out of your way to found an early religion is one of the classic beginner's mistakes to avoid.Hay, those are hurtful comments. . But seriously, not always a bad plan and the leader and the starting techs and starting location make a differance. Izzy with seafood start is a good example. But for that you need to have a little experience. The technologies for founding Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism are off the critical path and you often end up losing the race with the AI, meaning you've wasted a lot of research. Again, this really depend on what Victory you are going for. However, in general, if you can not improve your land because of the 10-13 turn devialtion, then it can be a bad choice as you noted. But, yes, but, these techs also enable Writing and then CoL which is an excellent trade bait all the way to Immortal. Above that i do not know. I actually don't make a special effort to found a religion at all, though I'll sometimes end up founding Confucianism, Christianity, or Taoism more or less by accident. However, some experienced players may disagree about this.

There is also another reason for an early religion, potential to get two additional happy faces via religion and temple.

It all come back to the map, leader and starting techs. Some time it is good and at higher levels most of the time it is bad.

 

[duckstab]

Let me rephrase my advice, because I wasn't trying to insult the OP or anyone else. We all made beginner's mistakes when we were - beginning.

It was more to speak to the point that there are a couple of infamous online strategy articles and reviews of Civ4 that encourage people to make founding an early religion one of their primary initial goals. But it's only useful in certain situations and it's probably better to get a good grasp of the fundamentals first so one can make an informed assessment in future games.

Bottom line is, in the majority of cases, you can get most of the benefits of a religion from adopting one that spreads to you, rather than bending over backwards to found one. That doesn't mean it's never worthwhile, but it's not a good idea to make it a habit.

 

[Antilogic]

Let me rephrase my advice, because I wasn't trying to insult the OP or anyone else. We all made beginner's mistakes when we were - beginning.

It was more to speak to the point that there are a couple of infamous online strategy articles and reviews of Civ4 that encourage people to make founding an early religion one of their primary initial goals. But it's only useful in certain situations and it's probably better to get a good grasp of the fundamentals first so one can make an informed assessment in future games.

Bottom line is, in the majority of cases, you can get most of the benefits of a religion from adopting one that spreads to you, rather than bending over backwards to found one. That doesn't mean it's never worthwhile, but it's not a good idea to make it a habit.

This is what I was getting at earlier with that terrible, barely-comprehensible run-on sentence I wrote at 3 AM. I don't advise focusing on particular wonder strategies, or focusing on getting religions, or always playing as X civilization and using their UU to clownstomp some AI, etc. If you only learn situational opening tricks, you won't really learn the game and instead become reliant on your crutches.

Learn to play your leader traits, study the map and find good places for cities, improve your terrain early with workers, learn how to use specialists, and balance your sliders. Those are skills that carry over between games.

 

[portz]

Wow thank you very much to everyone. I learned a lot from you guys.

Well I always play at random civ and once a spiritual leader came out or once one of the beginning research was mysticism, I prioritize founding a religion thinking that it will help greatly to increase my coin/gold (whatever) per turn rate but that's when I focus building missionaries and spread that religion.

what about the commerce tile sir? I only know that it helps me in financial needs but what I thought first is that 1 commerce will provide 1 coin/gold (per turn) but it seems like it doesn't. how can I know if the cottage is enough for a certain city?

 

[vandermerwe]

what about the commerce tile sir? I only know that it helps me in financial needs but what I thought first is that 1 commerce will provide 1 coin/gold (per turn) but it seems like it doesn't. how can I know if the cottage is enough for a certain city?

No, commerce and gold aren't the same. The difference between them depends on several things - civics, sliders, specialists and buildings, for instance. And there are other sources of gold too - such as shrines, building wealth or trades with other civs. There's a really useful diagram here which explains how all this works.

Also, just an opinion, but you can never have 'enough' commerce. It drives many other things in the game, most obviously your research rate but also your ability to upgrade units, rush buy things, keep citizens happy (via culture slider) and trade with the AI. Most importantly, a healthy economy with plenty of commerce allows you to make all of those choices. For sure you have to balance that with food and hammers - but that's part of the challenge. Better players will 'specialise' their cities so that some provide lots of commerce, some lots of food (which allows that city to support specialists and therefore generate great people) and some lots of hammers (for building units, principally). There's plenty of good advice on that elsewhere, but it basically depends on understanding what works best from the tiles and resources around each city.

 

[Antilogic]

No, commerce and gold aren't the same. The difference between them depends on several things - civics, sliders, specialists and buildings, for instance. And there are other sources of gold too - such as shrines, building wealth or trades with other civs. There's a really useful diagram here which explains how all this works.

That diagram is awesome, wish we had it when we started with Civ4 vanilla. Is it sticked at the top of this forum yet?



To answer the question most directly: in the most degenerate case, with no modifiers whatsoever and your sliders at 100% gold, 1 commerce does yield 1 gold. Or 1 culture for 100% culture, or 1 beaker for 100% science. But you will always want to build buildings with favorable modifiers and run Civics that give you bonuses, have maintenance to pay, etc. so it rarely works out so simply in the game.

 

[Um the Muse]

Everybody has given some good advice here, but I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents. Since you are just learning the ropes, I'd suggest playing at least a game or two without any wonders. If you disciplined enough, you might try no wonders and no buildings. Don't worry if you win or lose; the point is to have something to compare to.

Now see how much benefit you get by adding one building per city or one wonder per game. Are you better off? Worse off? Something in between or mixed results? That gives you an idea of whether it's worth building whatever it is you are building.

For example, I often think of granaries as the only OP building. However, if you have a city with plenty of food and production, you might find that a granary in that city just isn't worth building.

Another example is an island city. I built this city that had a single food resource and a couple of grassland tiles. I put cottages on all of the grassland tiles, had it build wealth or something and totally forgot that I had that city. It turned out to be one of my best cities! By leaving it alone, it was able to quickly develop the cottages into towns. It didn't matter that it was lacking commerce multipliers because building those things would've required whipping citizens, thereby distracting the city from developing towns.

The point is that certain things don't do nearly as much for you as you'd think and other things will occasionally wrought miracles in limited circumstances. Since everything is so dependent on circumstances, the above experiment will help you decide what those circumstances are.

 

[portz]

It finally makes sense to me. Yeah fortunately a got better and better in this game. I can crush 2 civs already and can make good decisions at some point. here another point that I can't understand:

*when I watch TheMeInTeam in youtube (let's play civilization 4), I saw that he won a diplomatic victory when he was voted and Won UN election. What he did was he declared war against 2 civs, then make friends with another 2. He always voting for other civ in the apostolic palace election to boost relationship. But after that, When the UN election comes, he was voted and WON and the end games winning with a diplomatic victory.
BUT in my experience, I did the same! I voted for other to gain relationship. But to my surprise, that civ I was voting was declared winner by diplomatic victory after the apostolic palace election. What does that mean?

 

[Antilogic]

It finally makes sense to me. Yeah fortunately a got better and better in this game. I can crush 2 civs already and can make good decisions at some point. here another point that I can't understand:

*when I watch TheMeInTeam in youtube (let's play civilization 4), I saw that he won a diplomatic victory when he was voted and Won UN election. What he did was he declared war against 2 civs, then make friends with another 2. He always voting for other civ in the apostolic palace election to boost relationship. But after that, When the UN election comes, he was voted and WON and the end games winning with a diplomatic victory.
BUT in my experience, I did the same! I voted for other to gain relationship. But to my surprise, that civ I was voting was declared winner by diplomatic victory after the apostolic palace election. What does that mean?

I think you voted for him at the wrong time.

There are two levels of elections in the AP and UN. The first is the holder of the title (either the resident of the AP, or the secretary-general of the UN). This person gets to call votes and pick what resolutions to try and pass. One of those resolutions is the victory resolution--if they get enough votes here, they will win the game. You can vote for the first one all day long and not lose, and I recommend doing so to get a relations boost with one of the candidates. In the latter case, you have to be careful.

The key to building relations through votes (and managing the elections in general) is to check the victory screen and the diplomacy screen during the vote and figure out who is supporting who and with what. Only vote for someone to boost relations so long as they don't win the game. In TMIT's case, he was probably safe in voting for his chosen buddy because he calculated the buddy couldn't win with his votes. Then, that guy would be at friendly status and would favor him in the UN elections late-game.

 

[skyclad]

Not sure if its been written but some of the most basic and necessary things to do to ensure you are not getting negative gold, is to

a) prioritize economy techs, in particular sailing, code of laws, and currency, later on printing press and corporations
b) build courthouses in every city as fast as you can (except capital can wait)
c) make sure every city is connected to trade network, and that you have open borders with as many AIs as possible. Make sure you can trade with the AIs, either by building a road to their land or by coast/river, with sailing.

Those things are all simple to keep in mind and execute and will not really help you maximize science but they will help you not be broke, which is an important first step

Another thing which can be useful is to scout your starting location (capital or second city) for any silver, gold, or gems. Later on, cottages will provide most of your commerce, but early on just a few, or even one, of those resources will help your economy a lot!

 

[portz]

@antilogic

thank you sir. i understand. whew I thought i will win that game that time. If I only knew that, It would be better if I crushed them all since I was leading in tech race and military. I just want to end it in different way not only conquest. thanks a lot for your help.

 

[happyturtle]

About the AI suddenly declaring war on you:

You can plan a peaceful game, but if you don't build enough soldiers, the AI will see you as an easy victim. It took me a long time as a beginner to figure out that I needed to always build an army - even if I didn't plan on using it.

This is as a beginner - more advanced players know how to better use diplomacy to avoid trouble, and how to use slavery or nationalism to get an army very quickly, but until then, have one or two cities that do nothing but make soldiers. Watch the demographics screen and the power graphs and make sure nobody - particularly a close neighbour - is too much stronger than you. Basically the stronger you look, the less you get attacked.

 

[mizzile]

I am a religion freak in this, i have done (FO REAL) just reasearching religion, trading one of those techs for MANY lesser techs, I ,unlike happyturtle, never have an army, because i never get people too mad and im on settler unless i really feel like k.o. (ing) another civ


EDIT : OR (only rarely if i don't have any army at all) just delete other civs!!!