I encountered a Mormon missionary...

[wit>trope]

Very stupid comparison: as opposed to blacks, prisoners HAVE done something wrong.

And Mormons believe that people who are black did something wrong in their before-life just as the prisoners did something wrong in their before-prison life.

Or, would you rather admit that the assupmtion that blacks are black bgecause they are former sinners id dumb?

I'm not Mormon. I happen to be Christian. I think their belief is dumb. But I don't think you should criticize it as being anti-black unless you want to criticize orange prison uniforms as anti-orange

 

[Jawz II]

once, when i was visiting my friend on another university campus, he showed me this 40 something year woman that lived in his dorm, she was a chrisitian, but in her church they belived in reincarnation, and they belived people who have sinned in past lives, are reborn as blacks, the darker the person, more sins they have commited!!

i dont remember what that church was called, but man it was hilarious

this black (i think indian) exchange student used to mess with her for hours, he would pretend to be intrested in joining her church (and being white in next life i guess) and make her talk of her religions virtues for hours!

theres no limit on stupidity...

 

[carlosMM]

And Mormons believe that people who are black did something wrong in their before-life just as the prisoners did something wrong in their before-prison life.

There is a slight difference here, that you continue to ignore: a prison suit is something that you get for an action in THIS life, and you can egt rid of it once you have atoned for your crime.

Skin color is benighing, and people are born black without having ever done anything wrong.

The authorities the assumption is based on are also vastly different: a sound judicial system on one hand, a weird gospel on the other. I do not think you seriously want to compare the two

I'm not Mormon. I happen to be Christian. I think their belief is dumb. But I don't think you should criticize it as being anti-black unless you want to criticize orange prison uniforms as anti-orange

uh, so you think one should not critizise anti-jewish sentiments in Palestine as after all the quran says one should kill all unbelivers?

or, to take it a step further, even the nazi race ideology should not be critizised just because prison uniforms should not be critizised?







and, btw, prison uniforms in public ARE cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[The Last Conformist]

But that's not what they are saying. They are saying they have dark skin because they sinned in the before-life, not that they sinned in the before-life because they have dark skin. An important disctinction Their dark skin didn't have anything to do with their sin in the before-life just as the orange prisoners wear didn't have anything to do with their sin.

I believe you misunderstood my use of the causative. The way the Mormons "know" they have sinned in the before-life is by looking att the skin colour.

As regards prison uniforms, the difference is that I have more faith in the juridical system than in Mormon theology. If someone shows up in a prison uniform, I think it's a reasonable assumption that he is a criminal. If someone shows up in dark skin, I do not think it's a reasonable assumption that he has sinned in a before-life I do not even believe in.

 

[wit>trope]

There is a slight difference here, that you continue to ignore: a prison suit is something that you get for an action in THIS life, and you can egt rid of it once you have atoned for your crime.

I think Mormons believe that blacks can get rid of it too so your logic fails there. And if you are criticizing them for the idea of being punished for something you did in the before-life then you should criticize Buddhists too since they also believe you can get punished for something you did in the before-life.

and, btw, prison uniforms in public ARE cruel and unusual punishment.

At least your kinda consistent.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I think Mormons believe that blacks can get rid of it too so your logic fails there.

Actually, the then Mormon prophet had a "revelation" in the '70s which revealed that blacks are no longer cursed. The part in the BoM about Amerinds to become "white and delightsome" was changed to "pure and delightsome", too.

And if you are criticizing them for the idea of being punished for something you did in the before-life then you should criticize Buddhists too since they also believe you can get punished for something you did in the before-life.

It's not the same thing, since Buddhists, IIUC, don't consider your race to be indicative of your meritoriousness in previous lives.

That said, I don't much like Buddhism. It just happens this thread isn't about them.

 

[andrewgprv]

Mormonism has a history of racism but most all members today are very accepting and not really racists at all. For a look into the racist past of the church check out the book "Mormonism and the Negro"

 

[wit>trope]

It's not the same thing, since Buddhists, IIUC, don't consider your race to be indicative of your meritoriousness in previous lives.

race, class, species, what's the difference?

That said, I don't much like Buddhism. It just happens this thread isn't about them.

I don't like it or Mormonism either. I just don't think either of them is anti-black.

 

[andrewgprv]

On the subject of mormon missionaries I encourage anyone considering joining the mormon faith to read this.

http://www.exmormon.org/tract2.htm

 

[The Last Conformist]

race, class, species, what's the difference?

Well, that they're not the same thing.

Saying that someone must've sinned in an earlier life because he's born into a low caste is as bad as saying someone must've sinned in the before-life because he is black, but it isn't racism.

 

[IglooDame]

I think Mormons believe that blacks can get rid of it too so your logic fails there.

Blacks can get rid of what - blackness? Is that why Michael Jackson got himself whitened?

 

[classical_hero]

Has anyone encountered a JW missionary?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Has anyone encountered a JW missionary?

Yes. They ran away when I told them my father was a pastor.

 

[Yom]

Has anyone encountered a JW missionary?

Didn't someone say FearlessLeader2 is a Jehovah's witness?

 

[classical_hero]

Yes. They ran away when I told them my father was a pastor.

I have encountered both and have had many a gret discussion with them. It is a no win situtation with them, just as it is with most of you guys.

 

[punkbass2000]

"It's not the same thing, since Buddhists, IIUC, don't consider your race to be indicative of your meritoriousness in previous lives."

Though not completely offbase, it seems to me you guys are more likely discussing Hinduism. For Buddhists, all life is suffering. And it's not so much a punishment as it is just the way things are on the Wheel of Life. Then again, there probably are more religious sects of Buddhism that could be construed as you guys describe.

 

[punkbass2000]

Has anyone encountered a JW missionary?

We used to get them every Saturday, largely because my girlfriend doesn't know how to say "no" groucho: ), and will always listen and accept whatever they want to give her. Fortunately, one weekend she wasn't here, and I answered the door, and they asked for her, but referred to her as "Laura" (her name is "Lori"), so I told them no one by that name lived here. They tried to sell me on it, but I quickly indicated I was not interested, and I haven't seen them since.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The most satisfying way to deal with JW missionaries is to simply agree with everything they say. They are so trained to discuss oppsing opinions, if you agree with everything, they run out of arguments pretty soon . Remember one encounter where they simply left after 37x "Yes, that sounds fine.".

 

[IglooDame]

The most satisfying way to deal with JW missionaries is to simply agree with everything they say. They are so trained to discuss oppsing opinions, if you agree with everything, they run out of arguments pretty soon . Remember one encounter where they simply left after 37x "Yes, that sounds fine.".

I don't know how satisfying that could be to someone like myself who is contrarian by nature. I'd probably just after the first two dozen or so agreements.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I think CFC OTers are, on the whole, a highly contrarian bunch.