I have a theory

[IAM]

The Great HITLER compromise: I suggest having Hitler in the game but not name him specifically. Simply say German Chancellor. Maybe use Rommels picture? Panzer UU is already in there. The UB could concern rockets, volkswagon, autobaun anything along that line. The flag could have a runic sunwheel instead of the swastika. That should get around the German laws and give Civ 5 'plausable deniability'.

 

[kivanc]

i am calling to the moderators! u make a warning for comments on George W. Bush but you keep silent for so many insults on Stalin and Mao. If you won't let politics to be discussed, just be fair for all.

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[Dr.Null]

The Great HITLER compromise: I suggest having Hitler in the game but not name him specifically. Simply say German Chancellor. Maybe use Rommels picture? Panzer UU is already in there. The UB could concern rockets, volkswagon, autobaun anything along that line. The flag could have a runic sunwheel instead of the swastika. That should get around the German laws and give Civ 5 'plausable deniability'.

I'm not really seeing why you'd want him in the game.

Nazi Germany was a low point in the history of an otherwise pretty cool nation.

 

[jwez11007]

I'm not really seeing why you'd want him in the game.

Nazi Germany was a low point in the history of an otherwise pretty cool nation.

Seconded, besides we already have an aggressive, charismatic leader. If you want hitler play unrestricted leaders as boudica of Germany.

 

[capnvonbaron]

i am calling to the moderators! u make a warning for comments on George W. Bush but you keep silent for so many insults on Stalin and Mao. If you won't let politics to be discussed, just be fair for all.

Comparing a D-grade presidents to monsterous dictators responsible for the oppression and deaths of millions of countymen and women (among other atrocities) is not "discussing politics".

Discussions/comments about Stalin and Mao (and further discussions over future leader content in Civ4) are acceptable here because they are game related. GWB is not game related. If you want to throw around Dubya insults, either go find a thread suggesting GWB as a future Civ leader (good luck), or please go do it on your favorite liberal republican-hater website. kthxbye.

 

[jdp29]

I never understand why people want Hitler in Civ. Like TMiT said, Hitler was a terrible leader. He was terrible at military (lets go attack Russia in the dead of winter and forget what happened when Napolean tried that). The only reason I can see people wanting him is because he has noteriety and is famous, both of which are not good reasons to include a leader.

Besides, it would just create too many problems. Firaxis doesn't need the burden of a game with Hitler in it and really, there is no reason to cater to the small amount of people who do want him included.

Finally, GWB is not even close to any of those dictators, at all. While his policies were controversial, they were not anything like mass genocide. Not even close. How can people even put them in the same category? There is a very large difference between taking a bit of freedom, and mass murder.

 

[ori]

Including Hitler would mean that Civ5 would not be allowed to be sold in Germany. That makes this a matter of simple economics.

Germany is the single most important country in Europe, and hugely so. For the Americans who just look on the map and think it's tiny: Germany's current population and economy is easily twice that of California, your most important state. Would it be a wise decision to lose such a huge market because of a simple, small bit of content? No, it would not.

my pet gripe on this forum:
including Hitler in the game would not make it illegal to sell the game in Germany. There are a few restrictions on use of certain nazi symbols that might be hard to get around (though the arts exception for this might actually apply). It would of course be a PR nightmare and quite difficult to have major retailers stock the game for political/PR reasons - but there is no reason why including Hitler as a/the German leader would make it illegal to be sold.

The Great HITLER compromise: I suggest having Hitler in the game but not name him specifically. Simply say German Chancellor. Maybe use Rommels picture? Panzer UU is already in there. The UB could concern rockets, volkswagon, autobaun anything along that line. The flag could have a runic sunwheel instead of the swastika. That should get around the German laws and give Civ 5 'plausable deniability'.

They sort of did that with the Road to War mod in Civ 4 where they used the German Chancellor and used the image of von Papen (who was Chancellor prior to Hitler and Vice Chancellor in Hitler's first year as Chancellor).
Actually using the swastika flag or something similar would be much more difficult in legal terms than using Hitler seeing as Hitler's image is in no way banned while the nazi flag is actually banned (unless used for, among others, artistic and educational purposes - which depending on usage might actually fly in a game as well). And its quite unneccesary since one could just use other flags in use during the Nazi regime - and be done with if one really wanted to reduce German history to the Third Reich.

 

[daniel192]

Civilization 5: Controversy expansion pack:

Khmer - Pol Pot
Inca - Che Guevara
Aztec/Maya - Fidel Castro
Korea - Kim Jong Il (Favorite civic: Police State)
Germany - Adolf Hitler

No, Hitler won't ever be in Civ.

 

[Disgustipated]

He lost, and did not significantly change germany for the better. At least not directly. I guess you could say indirectly changed by germany being conquered that resulted in a better goverment and putting that manufacturing capacity to good use. But that's a stretch.

If we are going to include leaders, shouldn't they be good leaders? I mean, really. Who here can say it was a good idea declaring war on the Soviet Union in 1941? Or declaring war on the US in 1941 (we might have declared on him, but still)

The guy was a loser. He wasn't even born in Germany was he?

 

[Graceheart the Leopard]

Inca - Che Guevara

"Welcome, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME] of the [OUR_EMPIRE]. Would you care to purchase one of my T-Shirts?"

 

[pesgores]

"Welcome, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME] of the [OUR_EMPIRE]. Would you care to purchase one of my T-Shirts?"

 

[daniel192]

"Welcome, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME] of the [OUR_EMPIRE]. Would you care to purchase one of my T-Shirts?"

So damn true.

 

[cardgame]

Mao & Stalin discussions are historical, not political. And while Stalin was indeed a monster like Hitler, he won. He won the war and further modernized the country, especially the capital, Moscow. Were his methods atrocious? Yes. But he won.

Churchill was a well-known racist, but he is in the game and I don't see anyone protesting.

George Washington owned slaves.

Genghis Khan killed millions... and he is in, and I do not see anybody protesting.

 

[Dr.Null]

Mao & Stalin discussions are historical, not political. And while Stalin was indeed a monster like Hitler, he won. He won the war and further modernized the country, especially the capital, Moscow. Were his methods atrocious? Yes. But he won.

Churchill was a well-known racist, but he is in the game and I don't see anyone protesting.

George Washington owned slaves.

Genghis Khan killed millions... and he is in, and I do not see anybody protesting.

Those guys aren't symbols used by current, living racists.

If they were used as symbols to inspire hate crimes, you would see protesting. You also probably wouldn't see those leaders in the game for very long.

 

[6K Man]

I never understand why people want Hitler in Civ. Like TMiT said, Hitler was a terrible leader. He was terrible at military (lets go attack Russia in the dead of winter and forget what happened when Napolean tried that). The only reason I can see people wanting him is because he has noteriety and is famous, both of which are not good reasons to include a leader.

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. From 1942 on, Hitler's Germany faced off against opponents (USSR, USA, British Empire) which had far more manpower and production capability, but still held on for almost 3 and a half years. The war was very nearly won by Nazi Germany in 1940-1.

Sure, Hitler was pretty delusional by the later stages of the war and made some terrible decisions (e.g. no retreat from Stalingrad), but his early decisions (marching on Austria, taking the Rhineland and Czechoslovakia) went against all his generals' advice and succeeded brilliantly.

Bleah. I just advocated for Hitler.

And whether you like GWB/Obama/Clinton/Reagan or not, comparing any of them to Hitler is just nuts. Completely different ballgame there.

 

[mechaerik]

"Welcome, [CT_NAME]. I am [OUR_NAME] of the [OUR_EMPIRE]. Would you care to purchase one of my T-Shirts?"

Fight Capitalism in style by wearing one of my $17.99 t-shirts!

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm not sure I totally agree with this. From 1942 on, Hitler's Germany faced off against opponents (USSR, USA, British Empire) which had far more manpower and production capability, but still held on for almost 3 and a half years. The war was very nearly won by Nazi Germany in 1940-1.

Sure, Hitler was pretty delusional by the later stages of the war and made some terrible decisions (e.g. no retreat from Stalingrad), but his early decisions (marching on Austria, taking the Rhineland and Czechoslovakia) went against all his generals' advice and succeeded brilliantly.

Bleah. I just advocated for Hitler.

And whether you like GWB/Obama/Clinton/Reagan or not, comparing any of them to Hitler is just nuts. Completely different ballgame there.

I have to disagree about Stalingrad. The war was lost June of 41 when he declared war. Even had he withdrawn, I just can't see how he could have defeated the Soviet Union. He would have only prolonged the war perhaps.

Resolving the war with England should have been his highest priority. He had no hope of an invasion of England, so he should have sought peace somehow, though I doubt Churchill would have accepted any kind of peace treaty, but there might have been a possibility of a cease fire. Germany just bit off more than they could chew.

 

[6K Man]

I have to disagree about Stalingrad. The war was lost June of 41 when he declared war. Even had he withdrawn, I just can't see how he could have defeated the Soviet Union. He would have only prolonged the war perhaps.

Far from a sure thing in 1941 or 1942, even; your hindsight is 20:20, of course. Stalingrad could have turned out differently if Hitler hadn't divided the army groups, sending some south and some east, or if they had bypassed Stalingrad. The men and material lost at the Volga could have been crucial in the spring of '43.

Resolving the war with England should have been his highest priority. He had no hope of an invasion of England, so he should have sought peace somehow, though I doubt Churchill would have accepted any kind of peace treaty, but there might have been a possibility of a cease fire. Germany just bit off more than they could chew.

Since I already made that point, I agree.

 

[Carver]

Civilization 5: Controversy expansion pack:

Khmer - Pol Pot
...
Korea - Kim Jong Il (Favorite civic: Police State)
Germany - Adolf Hitler

No, Hitler won't ever be in Civ.

Civ V: Kill The World

The other two you mentioned are great men whom history will remember fondly.

 

[Willem]

Far from a sure thing in 1941 or 1942, even; your hindsight is 20:20, of course.

Hitler lost the war as soon as he declared against Russia. Had he left them alone then he could concievably have held on to his European conquests, instead of spreading his forces out over several fronts. The decision to break the neutrality treaty was extremely stupid and is enough of a bonehead manuever to exclude Hitler as being good enough to be considered for Civ. Except maybe in some special scenario. But that will never happen due to his bad rep in today's world.