I just had an epiphany about Civ5!

[PawelS]

It is for builders as well Call of Duty is a train simulator....

I can't discuss with this, if you don't have any serious arguments.

Edit: Oh well, I just realized I wasn't going to post here...

 

[blind biker]

IMO City States are essential to Civ5 (and I'm not saying if I like it or not).

In previous Civ games the map was the top feature to dictate strategy. Here the map is above
all "where CS are?".

I am not able to decide a strategy without knowing about the location of (some) CS. Are you?

CS are a bit like some kind of strategic resource. It's funny, though: the only problem with resources in Civ IV was that one location with iron was sufficient to supply all the cities, irrespective of the size of your empire or the number of iron-consuming units you built. This was fixed somewhat in Civ V (but everything else with resources in Civ V is badly broken) - HOWEVER.... one CS grants a bonus to every city in the empire, basically eternally. That's bollocks.

 

[CivFanaticMan]

If you wonder why Firaxis is not reading the forums here is a thought. Try reading these posts through their eyes. I have read through 4 pages on this particular thread. In that time I found perhaps 3 usefull and insightfull posts or remarks regarding the state of the game and what needs fixing. The other 50 or so were personal attacks on forum posters or a simple statement that the game sucks. If I worked for Firaxis I doubt I would have the patience to wade through so much crap. I would not care if poster x dislikes poster y, and although I would care that people are very unhapy with my product it is only depressing to read that over and over again without being told what is wrong exactly. That might impact the quality of CIV 6 but does nothing to fix CIV 5.

If you realy want to see CIV 5 become great consider being part of the solution. Identify the problem elements (in your opinion) and maybee even give a sugestion or two on how to solve it. Allow others to give you feedback without geting bent out of shape about them having an opinion that may conflict with yours. If 10 other people say your idea makes sense and one guy disagrees don't bother telling him off, it's obvious your on the right path. If 10 people tell you your idea is not so good, perhaps it isn't.

Then again this is all my opinion and you can flame me if you like, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I agree. This post, which was originally ment to discus a major gameplay issue is turning into a rant.

 

[Bad Brett]

I can play a match in Age of Empires II for ten hours straight against my friends without getting bored.

Still I think the OP might be on to something here, because I've never enjoyed Starcraft. I think the key is that many people (like me) enjoy the feeling of creating things. We enjoy games where a single peasent can create something that will become an empire... And as the sadists we are, we also enjoy crushing our friends' empires.

But there are other things as well. I love chess, card games and monopoly. But I've always hated the computer versions of these games. I also happen to enjoy books, but I would never pay to read a book on my computer. I love storytelling around the bonfire, but when I go to the movies I expect to actually see the action and I would be very disappointed if the entire movie consisted of a guy sitting on a rock telling a story.

The difference between playing chess with a friend and playing chess against the computer, is that you can't socialize with the computer. You can't discuss the game with the computer afterwards. When you win, that's it. The fun is over. Therefore, computer games, at least single player games, must add something else to the equation to actually be fun. Things that you can show your friends and brag about. It may be a magical sword that's almost impossible to get, a huge theme park or a powerful empire in Civilization.

The goal with every Civ game should therefore be to make the player feel like the leader of an empire, not a participant in a board game against the computer. And no, I'm not the sandbox guy that want to build my cities in peace and watch them grow. I'm a math nerd, I want the numbers, I want the odds, I want to do the risk calculations. It's just that playing Civ V doesn't offer me anything more than I get from playing a game of cards with my friends.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I can play a match in Age of Empires II for ten hours straight against my friends without getting bored.

Still I think the OP might be on to something here, because I've never enjoyed Starcraft. I think the key is that many people (like me) enjoy the feeling of creating things. We enjoy games where a single peasent can create something that will become an empire... And as the sadists we are, we also enjoy crushing our friends' empires.

But there are other things as well. I love chess, card games and monopoly. But I've always hated the computer versions of these games. I also happen to enjoy books, but I would never pay to read a book on my computer. I love storytelling around the bonfire, but when I go to the movies I expect to actually see the action and I would be very disappointed if the entire movie consisted of a guy sitting on a rock telling a story.

The difference between playing chess with a friend and playing chess against the computer, is that you can't socialize with the computer. You can't discuss the game with the computer afterwards. When you win, that's it. The fun is over. Therefore, computer games, at least single player games, must add something else to the equation to actually be fun. Things that you can show your friends and brag about. It may be a magical sword that's almost impossible to get, a huge theme park or a powerful empire in Civilization.

The goal with every Civ game should therefore be to make the player feel like the leader of an empire, not a participant in a board game against the computer. And no, I'm not the sandbox guy that want to build my cities in peace and watch them grow. I'm a math nerd, I want the numbers, I want the odds, I want to do the risk calculations. It's just that playing Civ V doesn't offer me anything more than I get from playing a game of cards with my friends.

That is the point... the story telling

the game needs to be designed so that the "way to win" is to tell a good story.
Or rather you have to tell a good story, because the game is always throwing plot twists at you.

This is where realism becomes useful in the sense of making the player act like nations.. because if they don't act like nations they lose.

 

[Jolly Rogerer]

I like this It perfectly captures the irrational hope that the current team might just put a run together and challenge for a trophy (read: the latest collection of patches will somehow make things OK). And the misplaced confidence that the management will finally listen to the fans do a U-turn on all their strategies, transfer policies, and media bulls*** of the last few years (read: well pretty much the same things really). But we still read the back page reports every week just out of masochism. Luckily the seniors team is still playing and winning regularly!

Great post, made me laugh.