I need opinions

[Kadja]

Good day, all.

I've been a fan of the Civ series since number one, and I'll keep being a fan for many years to come. And, with the inclusion of modding tools and a large community of people who use them, Civ IV seems like a modder's paradise. I've played scads of mods, both retail and fan-based, and with each one, my mind fills with more ideas. I know that I'm totally out of my depth with a lot of them, but you've got to start somewhere, right? For me, there's rarely a better way to learn how to swim than to jump into the deep end.

The idea that's forefront in my mind at the moment revolves around the Zodiac: Twelve tribes, each following a particular sign, that sign granting them certain bonus. But there's one idea that I'm quite frankly stuck on.

Time passes, as I'm sure we all know. And as we go through the year, we spend about a month within the realm of each symbol of the Zodiac. That's not a problem; I can just make each "month" ten or twelve or fifteen turns (I'm still working on that part), and have the turn timer say as much. But the problem comes from what to do during that "month". I have two possible ideas. The first idea is that each symbol has its own unique always-active power, a la "Rhye's and Fall of Civilization", and during their "month" in prominence, they gain extra commerce and culture, much like a mini-golden age. The second idea is that each symbol does not have a universal ability, but during their "month", they gain an even more powerful ability, and that it vanishes after their month is up.

I have equally good arguments for both ideas, and I can't make up my mind either way. So I ask you, good modders of Civilization, to weigh in on this. I figure if anyone would know which would be better, it would be you. (The next post will have the lists of powers as they stand.)

 

[Kadja]

First, the Universal Powers:

* Aries - "The Ram": Siege weapons gain bonuses against cities
* Taurus - "Seeing Red": Attack bonuses in one's cultural borders
* Gemini - "Two-Faced": Bonus to Espionage Point production
* Cancer - "The Tides": Additional food and commerce from water tiles
* Leo - "Loyalty: Cities are less likely to revolt
* Virgo - "Beauty": Reduced unhappiness in all cities
* Libra - "Rule of Law": Reduced maintenance across the board
* Scorpio - "Venom": Enemy troops don't heal in Scorpio Land
* Sagittarius - "Range": All archery units gain additional first strikes
* Capricorn - "Mountain Home": Peaks produce food and production
* Aquarius - "Clean Water": Reduced unhealthiness across the board
* Pisces - "Currents": Additional movement points for all ships

 

[Kadja]

Now, the Once-a-Year Powers

* Aries - "The Ram": Melee units ignore city walls
* Taurus - "Bull Rush": Melee and mounted units gain collateral damage bonuses
* Gemini - "Two Heads": Increased military unit production and science
* Cancer - "High Tides": Water tiles produce addition food, commerce, and production
* Leo - "Valor": Units gain experience point bonuses
* Virgo - "Beauty": Enemy cities are more likely to revolt
* Libra - "Rule of Law": No resistance upon conquering a city
* Scorpio - "Venom": Enemy units take damage in Scorpio territory
* Sagittarius - "Snipers": Archery units can target specific units in a stack
* Capricorn - "Mountainwalk": Units can move through peaks, and gain bonuses defending and attacking from them
* Aquarius - "Clean Water": Increased food production, and enemy cities suffer unhealthiness
* Pisces - "Currents": Naval units gain movement, retreat chance, and first strikes

Now, these are the ideas just as they stand right now. I'm not married to the names, the ideas, et cetera. These are just so I can let you know where I am right now in the creative process. Any and all input is appreciated.

 

[Roads]

You've got a good idea. I like the concept of planning for contingencies. Well not maybe not contingencies but I couldn't think of a more accurate word. Anyway the concept of having shifting influences impact game strategy is a great idea.

I voted universal even tho I don't like the "Mountainwalk." Actually I would like more impassable areas instead of less. The reason for this is I love the ability to strategically defend my borders and of course use the fort mod. More impassable areas on continent maps would eliminate the need for so many forts. As it is it gets a bit overwhelming trying to build a border of forts.

 

[Kadja]

All right. I hadn't thought of it that way. I'll put that into my notes for the game, then.

So far, it seems like we're going with "Universal Powers". Any more opinions?

 

[Popcornlord]

I like the strategy possibilities behind the Once-a-Year powers. The Universal Powers could seem to much like traits, even though it would be easier to program.

 

[asioasioasio]

I voted for Universal Powers.
Some of the powers would be useless if they would appear once a year - like for Virgo - what sense has extra happiness once a year?

EDIT

ekhm sorry i didn't red allt the posts..

With this set i would vote for Once-a-Year Powers

Might be interesting solution.

 

[cephalo]

I think if you are going this direction you should use both the universal and once per year mechanics. This will be more of a balancing act but more differentiation between the civs makes things more fun. It shouldn't be difficult to do both, and it makes sense.

More content is always better if it doesn't bog down the players decision making.

 

[asioasioasio]

I think if you are going this direction you should use both the universal and once per year mechanics. This will be more of a balancing act but more differentiation between the civs makes things more fun. It shouldn't be difficult to do both, and it makes sense.

More content is always better if it doesn't bog down the players decision making.

I fully agree. Mix of both would be awsome.

 

[Kadja]

I was actually debating the "mix-of-both" option. I guess when I actually get around to writing it, I could always write up three versions (Ack!), upload all of them, and get opinions then about which is the more enjoyable version.

 

[seZereth]

I think you should go for the mix as well!

what about tying it to certain buildings, techs, etc. so you either start with the universal or the once a year power and can gain the other one through buildings or techs.

Will you have to choose your tribe and zodiac when you start? or can you get perhaps more of the signs by making them all available through tech/building/capturing landmarks.
And will you create new "tibes" techtree, or will it be a normal vanilla game with zodiacs?
(i would prefer a game focused on the early stages of mankind, starting in stoneage, with rockthrowers and pointystick / club men, hunter gatherer, advancing until dark ages... more fitting for zodiac related stuff )

 

[Ninja2]

Yes, yes, use both principles at the same time. If you only go for once a year powers, then your faction is identical to ten other factions 92% of your gaming time.

 

[SerriaFox]

I voted for the once a year powers because I think that better fits with your design concept.

However Think each group should have differing and constant traits which are medium in terms of game play.

While each group get there yearly bonus, One turn maybe a little quick in turns of game play, What I would suggest is a building and declining bonus over three to five months, one or two month of building bonus, one month of peak bonus, and one or two months of declining bonus.

 

[Kadja]

seZereth: At the beginning of the game, you chose your Sign, which is your tribe (The Libra Tribe, the Virgo Tribe, et cetera). But Civ-specific techtrees are a good idea.

SerriaFox: I didn't make it clear enough at the beginning, but a month wouldn't last one turn. One "month" would be roughly ten turns. Maybe ten, maybe twelve, maybe fifteen or so. I'm still working that out.

Overall, a lot of good opinions. Another option has occured to me, let's see what the opinion on it is: The tribes start with a Once-a-year power and a significantly weaker Universal power, but through researching certain techs, that power slowly grows more potent.

 

[SerriaFox]

oh, that makes more since.

I do like starting of with a weaker power since early game development is such a driver you might even wait until the equivalent to priesthood is research. That away the advantages would not start to early to unbalance the game, since it is an early tech but not a starting tech. You might need to upgrade the AI preference for whatever tech you decide to use so that it can keep up in the game style your making

 

[Kadja]

oh, that makes more since.

I do like starting of with a weaker power since early game development is such a driver you might even wait until the equivalent to priesthood is research. That away the advantages would not start to early to unbalance the game, since it is an early tech but not a starting tech. You might need to upgrade the AI preference for whatever tech you decide to use so that it can keep up in the game style your making

An excellent idea. I hadn't thought of that. That might work. I'll use that one in the "Universal Power/Once-a-Year Power" idea.