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I used to think disasters were mostly harmless and inconsequential

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Socrates99, May 14, 2019.

  1. cvb

    cvb Chieftain

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    If that is true,
    will happen in every 10th or 30th game?! will happen (very) seldom?! Where is the problem? Don't tell me, that even then you LOOSE the entire game because of that. You'll have a crisis, recover and still win the game. Btw, those are the games, you remember even decades later ...

    Without 'lows' there are no 'highs'. Think about it. If you have always luck, you loose the ability to appreciate it, because you never suffered from bad luck.

    And as I said, for those, who don't want to stress their frustration tolerance: let them tone down hurricane severity to a tolerable level, they feel comfortable with.

    edit: the core of my statement doesn't need to make up anything at all
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    And where did you get that range of frequency?

    Reminds me of the truism that 83.7% of all statistics thrown around on the internet are simply made up on the spot.
     
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  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    The problem is stripping agency out of a game that purports to be in the strategy genre. Against even competition (say MP) this has no place at all, and it doesn't seem you can completely disable it in SP right now.

    When something reduces the number of meaningful decisions --> altering outcome it is a detriment to the game, not an improvement. I've yet to see this refuted, though the possibility is still on the table of course.
     
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  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Aaah originally a Vic Reeves quote I believe “88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot” comedy is often the most truthful profession. One rather out of the box guy.
     
  5. cvb

    cvb Chieftain

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    I play CIV only in SP. Also I don't take CIV very serious as strategic game. I find, that in the CIV world random (in frequence & severity) disasters a fitting good to the random maps.
    Playing CIV on highly (rotation)symmetric, known maps I would find quite boring. If I want a similar experience, I prefer chess (against a human).

    I suggest, players should be able to turn off or tone down hurricanes.

    .
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Heaven forbid anyone take it seriously.
    However repairing districts for many turns is like playing the French Defence at chess. You can win with it but it is really a waste of your time.
    What I do take seriously is choosing how I spend my time, not letting a computer choose for me.
     
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  7. cvb

    cvb Chieftain

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    I'm glad, that we agree to take the rules in our own hands and to form them to our needs!

    Btw, why don't you just revert the endless nerved Victoria back to her original vanilla parameters?!

    .
     
  8. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Because it is as much about this forum as playing the game, hence why I did not use mods.
    I played GOTM the other day and I think it is because I now see it for what it should be and weep. That it is not worth spending my time on while I still enjoy the forum.
    Think of it like I am a civ IV fanatic, my time is done, just hanging on for memories sake.
     
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  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    So you don't want to refute it :/.

    What level of random damage w/o agency would be too much, or too centralizing?
     
  10. S1AL

    S1AL Chieftain

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    I know other people have responded, but I can't believe anyone would actually post something like this. The game does not allow you to *not* invest in cities. That's mechanically impossible. Furthermore, there's actually just nothing that you can do about it, which is even less practical than real life (where many societies developed, early on, ways around such destruction).

    I can't imagine the point of playing civ generally, but 6 especially, without mods. Given that Firaxis had chosen to focus on "Ooo shiny", it's only reasonable for players to put the other elements in hands that care about those elements. Or, alternatively, just play a different 4X/different game entirely.
     
  11. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    @Victoria "see it for what it should be and weep" is an interesting thing to say. That's sounds like how I feel - I feel like the game has all the pieces to be awesome, but then just falls apart for often quite trivial reasons.

    Like, I think Tornadoes and Coastal Flooding are fine - the real problem is that Coastal Cities can't really handle repairs or building Sea Walls, you can't use stronger cities to support them (other than to buy a builder who can only fix improvements anyway), and all the send aid rubbish is useless because you'd don't get much really and can't repair anything with gold regardless. And that's on top of Coastal Cities being often not worth the effort anyway.

    Some of this could be easily fixed. eg Make Coastal Cities more valuable, so you want to have them. Have a Policy Card (eg Emergency Services, Military Card) which reduces the cost of Repairing Districts and Buildings. Let Military Engineers speed production of Sea Walls.

    We get big patches and expansions and these things don't get better. Maybe it's because the game is so big, that FXS find it hard to balance everything. Which is fair enough. But at the end of the day, if the game isn't fun I'm not going to play it. There's no hard feelings, but I'm not going to play a game just because the designers are trying hard. It actually has to be fun.

    Air Defence, Resources, Power, Colonial Cities are all great mechanics, massively let down by FXS getting the numbers all wrong and or making some (maybe in hindsight) bad calls. eg Tier 3 buildings weren't properly buffed or made more dynamic; too many things need niter and oil, not enough need iron.

    Civ currently feels like it's balanced around Pangea Maps and games ending in about the Renaissance. That's fine, but not what I want. I like the whole ancient classical era thing, which does work really well, but then I want colonialism (exploration, conquest and trade) and I want industrial revolution (including social and political upheaval) and these are a fail.

    I'm not cross. I like the FXS gang - they seem like really genuine people, who are creative, hard working and listen. I really like the community here. But I'm also kinda done. I'm just not getting what I want from the game.

    I really hope the next patch moves the needle.

    I'm okay playing with Mods, but I haven't actually seen any that really address my issues with the game. Perhaps that relfects how hard it is to get these things right. Or perhaps I'm being too fussy. Dunno.

    I've tried doing my own mod in fits and starts, but I have limited time / other responsibilities, it's a big job for a non-coder like me (although I can usually work things out), and it's hard to really commit when FXS are still actively developing the game (various patches have addressed a lot of my gripes, it's just there are some big ones still outstanding).

    And a bit like @Victoria, I'd prefer to play without Mods or at least very very few, so I can discuss the game with others and be discussing the same thing.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  12. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    The issue is that it is far too expensive to repair damaged districts - whether it is to pillaging by units or disasters. Given that pillaged tiles can be easily repaired by builders, the contrast is extreme.

    If I had the time or expertise I would mod it to make district repair cheaper. I would also have it that building districts generate a unit too. Just imagine the air getting a fighter or bomber for each airbase district and upgrade building. Soon have plenty of action in the skies. Similarly with harbours generating ships when the district or upgrade building is completed.
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Because they have made it so worthwhile to pillage districts, I do not imagine they want to make them cheaper.
    Each change has implications, I never heard in any forum people complain that pillaging was too small. Quite the opposite, they said they were implementing it and the was an outcry... and I still struggle will pillaging a market for 600 gold when it will take 200 turns for a market to make that much.
     
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  14. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Isn't repairing already much cheaper than in vanilla? I often pillage the hell out of cities before I take them. Repairing doesn't generally take a lot of time.
     
  15. MrRadar

    MrRadar Chieftain

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    It is very cheap to repair buildings. But to repair a pillaged district - oh, boy! Now if I pillage around some city that I plan to take and keep, I only pillage the buildings, but leave the districts be. District repairs take double digits in turns.
     
  16. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    just a little bit ago I began repairs on a campus in a captured city, 8 turns, 54 cogs. I do remember vanilla repairs costing the same as building new but it was changed after a little outcry. I pillage just about everything these days. It's worth it.
     
  17. Kimurae

    Kimurae Chieftain

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    It really feels like (and might make sense), they seem to focus on the first hour or so of the game, and don't seem to focus on the fun aspects after.

    Why can't walls be something that gets rebuilt as your city expands? A sea wall would protect your districts.
     
  18. Jkchart

    Jkchart Chieftain

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    Both you and being hit by some of these hurricanes have convinced me. There needs to either be tweaks to hurricane damage, or to repair costs (production costs in general, actually) so that a coastal city isn't basically helpless to fix itself, and even build itself in the first place.

    I do like running internal trade routes to help coastal cities, but this shouldn't be the go to solution. Needs to be some better balance of where to get production, and how much things cost. So when a hurricane IS devastating, you're not repairing it until game's end.

    But it is of course very satisfying to watch it happen to a bully of an AI.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes, to clarify.
    A lot of a coastal cities production and food is at sea and due to the Harbor. All of this is wiped out. It is not the same as repairing a pillaged campus, it is a lot worse... fisheries are completely removed. Now that may make IRL sense but is no fun in game. The value of being on the coast is not depicted well in-game and so it just all sucks.
     
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  20. Jkchart

    Jkchart Chieftain

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    I agree. I'm glad they recognized the commercial importance, but the idea that coastal cities can't access the same tools, raw materials, etc. as their inland counterparts simply because of the water is inaccurate. Should it be hard to build a massive city on a one or two tile island? Yes. And if that gets wiped out by a hurricane, well that makes sense. But a city on a major continent on the coast should not be penalized in production just for being settled there. Gold is not always a replacement for production.
     

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