I Want Out

[Stretchy Man]

I give up. It's now clear Firaxis doesn't understand or even care with what's wrong with Civ 5.

I'm angry with the ridiculous lies that came out of Firaxis and 2K. I'm angry with myself for believing a company like Firaxis that only seems to exist due to the goodwill of civ fanatics wouldn't tell so many porkies. I'm angry that I trusted Firaxis wouldn't screw it up again after Civ 3 and that they finally understood what makes Civ fun. I'm angry that I thought giving a young boyish looking graduate with a cheesy grin the job of designing the new civ was a good idea.

I'm also angry with myself for pre-ordering cause Civ 4 was so darn good I figured they couldn't totally screw it up. I'm angry that I not only bought more memory, but a new graphics card just to run Civ 5. All up, Civ 5 cost me $200!



I want to sell it but I'm wondering if there anything stopping me from doing so. As long as I hand over my Steam account details to the buyer it should be ok right? This whole episode has made me suspicious. Who knows what I've signed away by agreeing to the Steam Subscriber Agreement.

Cheers,

Stretchy Man.

 

[krasny]

You can't legally sell it.

If Steam find out you are sharing your account, they will cancel it, making all of your Steam games unplayable.

I fear Civ 5 is what you get when the organ grinder is working on Civ-ville.

Maybe they will rescue the game, but rescuing it will be a mammoth task.

Firaxis is now on my sh1t list of developers that cannot be trusted.

 

[Harvestmoon]

Wait for the patch broooo!1

 

[krasny]

Wait for the patch broooo!1

The patch will only fix bugs and other minor gameplay issues.

It won't redesign the game.

 

[Stretchy Man]

You can't legally sell it.

Seriously? Do they actually forbid you from from giving away the rights to play a game that you have just purchased?



I've uninstalled the game, and since I don't have any other Steam games, won't be using the account again. I'll recommend to the buyer that he changes the password. No good?

 

[Stretchy Man]

Wait for the patch broooo!1

 

[builer680]

Seriously? Do they actually forbid you from from giving away the rights to play a game that you have just purchased?



I've uninstalled the game, and since I don't have any other Steam games, won't be using the account again. I'll recommend to the buyer that he changes the password. No good?

Technically, that's still against the EULA.

Practically, it would work fine.

 

[Novare]

I give up. It's now clear Firaxis doesn't understand or even care with what's wrong with Civ 5.

I'm angry with the ridiculous lies that came out of Firaxis and 2K. I'm angry with myself for believing a company like Firaxis that only seems to exist due to the goodwill of civ fanatics wouldn't tell so many porkies. I'm angry that I trusted Firaxis wouldn't screw it up again after Civ 3 and that they finally understood what makes Civ fun. I'm angry that I thought giving a young boyish looking graduate with a cheesy grin the job of designing the new civ was a good idea.

I'm also angry with myself for pre-ordering cause Civ 4 was so darn good I figured they couldn't totally screw it up. I'm angry that I not only bought more memory, but a new graphics card just to run Civ 5. All up, Civ 5 cost me $200!



I want to sell it but I'm wondering if there anything stopping me from doing so. As long as I hand over my Steam account details to the buyer it should be ok right? This whole episode has made me suspicious. Who knows what I've signed away by agreeing to the Steam Subscriber Agreement.

Cheers,

Stretchy Man.

They tried something new and you dont like it, yet you make it out like they purposefully started production with the thought and intent to screw you outta money.

Sorry to say but 1 individual me or you just arent that important to a big company

 

[krasny]

Technically, that's still against the EULA.

Practically, it would work fine.

The big problem is when you share account details you also share all your Steam games.

 

[bite]

Moderator Action: Just a quick warning before the conversation continues; the site has a very strict policy in regards to piracy, so if you make any suggestions in that regard, do not be surprised if you receive an infraction

 

[DrXenos]

Moderator Action: Just a quick warning before the conversation continues; the site has a very strict policy in regards to piracy, so if you make any suggestions in that regard, do not be surprised if you receive an infraction

What are you talking about? No one was talking about piracy. He was talking about selling his game. The Right of First Sales clause of the US copyright laws STILL allows him to do so, regardless of what the EULA says.

DrX

Moderator Action: Public discussion of moderator actions is not allowed in this forum. Write a PM, if you have to say anything about an action.

 

[builer680]

The big problem is when you share account details you also share all your Steam games.

And he said he has no other Steam games. So that isn't a 'big problem.'

Or even a problem at all... for him.

Spoiler :

Seriously? Do they actually forbid you from from giving away the rights to play a game that you have just purchased?



I've uninstalled the game, and since I don't have any other Steam games, won't be using the account again. I'll recommend to the buyer that he changes the password. No good?

Otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

Edit: It's annoying that I even had to post this. You should read more thoroughly before responding. The quote I'm referring to in the Spoiler is right there inside my post... the post that you quoted.

 

[s1ngl3play3r]

200$? I spent about 300$ on a new videocard and about 80-90 $ on the game (and I wanted to spend more, much more ), played about 100 hours and figured out I actualy enjoy reading civfanatics more than playing the game.

 

[DrXenos]

You can't legally sell it.

If Steam find out you are sharing your account, they will cancel it, making all of your Steam games unplayable.

I fear Civ 5 is what you get when the organ grinder is working on Civ-ville.

Maybe they will rescue the game, but rescuing it will be a mammoth task.

Firaxis is now on my sh1t list of developers that cannot be trusted.

Legality and company rules are not the same thing. Of course he can legally sell it. Firaxis cannot change the law. Their EULA may have rules against it, but that doesn't change the law. The US courts have ruled time and again that a company cannot use an EULA to override your rights under the law.

The kicker is, if you do sell it, they can just cancel the account. So, you are still screwed. This is why, although Steam may be a great distribution system, it is really bad for consumers because it destroys the used games market.

DrX

 

[abone734]

Firaxis is still fine, even though this game needs work.

I'll never buy another DICE product again though

 

[esemjay]

What are you talking about? No one was talking about piracy. He was talking about selling his game. The Right of First Sales clause of the US copyright laws STILL allows him to do so, regardless of what the EULA says.

DrX

The EULA is a legally binding contract that you "virtually sign" when you install the game. Violating the EULA may not be piracy, but it is a breach of contract; given that Civ5 AND Steam have contracts that you must sign, even virtually, prior to use of the game- breaching either contract leaves you subject to the retribution as drawn out in the contract.

If the EULA states that you cannot redistribute the game (as most EULA's do), then redistribution is unlawful distribution. Unlawful distribution is the definition of "software piracy."

In order to sell the game, you would need to transfer it from your Steam account to another. If you don't do it through the channels that Steam provides, they reserve the right to lock out your account. Because any other games that depend on Steam would be tied to that account, you would lose access to them as well- also well within the law. (If you purchase a car, and do something illegal with the engine causing JUST the engine to be repossessed... you can't complain that they stole the car.)

My suggestion is to just delete the game or give it away, if you really don't want it. It's really not worth the trouble of trying to transfer it, legally. If I were running Steam, I would make purchase-transfers difficult ON PURPOSE in order to encourage purchases over transfers.

 

[warmonger]

The EULA is a legally binding contract that you "virtually sign" when you install the game. Violating the EULA may not be piracy, but it is a breach of contract; given that Civ5 AND Steam have contracts that you must sign, even virtually, prior to use of the game- breaching either contract leaves you subject to the retribution as drawn out in the contract.

Whilst this is technically correct, a legally binding contract cannot legally contain clauses that are in conflict with the laws of the jurisdiction in which the contract was made. If there is a statute that says "thou shall not....", then a contract cannot say "in this case, thou can."

This is why all commercial contracts have a clause that says if any clause is deemed unenforceable by a court, then that clause is struck from the contract and the remainder is enforceable.

The EULA can not take away your legal rights.

 

[brxbrx]

I give up. It's now clear Firaxis doesn't understand or even care with what's wrong with Civ 5.

I'm angry with the ridiculous lies that came out of Firaxis and 2K. I'm angry with myself for believing a company like Firaxis that only seems to exist due to the goodwill of civ fanatics wouldn't tell so many porkies. I'm angry that I trusted Firaxis wouldn't screw it up again after Civ 3 and that they finally understood what makes Civ fun. I'm angry that I thought giving a young boyish looking graduate with a cheesy grin the job of designing the new civ was a good idea.

I'm also angry with myself for pre-ordering cause Civ 4 was so darn good I figured they couldn't totally screw it up. I'm angry that I not only bought more memory, but a new graphics card just to run Civ 5. All up, Civ 5 cost me $200!



I want to sell it but I'm wondering if there anything stopping me from doing so. As long as I hand over my Steam account details to the buyer it should be ok right? This whole episode has made me suspicious. Who knows what I've signed away by agreeing to the Steam Subscriber Agreement.

Cheers,

Stretchy Man.

Any particular grievances? And you know, a lot of people prefer civ 5 to civ 4.
Me, I liked BtS the most. But I (would) still enjoy civ 5, but for the crashes.
I have high hopes for Civ 5. 2kgreg has made it clear that they are working on more content. The civ facebook app is disheartening, but I doubt they'd dump a cash cow like Civilization.

 

[builer680]

@esemjay:

Your post is completely and utterly moot.

There's no need to 'transfer' anything. The only thing on his Steam account is Civ V. So it doesn't matter a hill of beans that he'd lose access to any other games on that account, because he doesn't have any other games on it.

So all that would technically be needed is for him to "lose" the account login info. Then someone else could just happen to "find" that info. And Steam doesn't need to know anything about any of it.

Of course, I'd change/delete all personal information, including credit card information, that's tied to the account... before I "lost" the login info and before someone else "found" it.

If he ever wanted to buy another Steam game, it's as simple as just making a new account.

 

[esemjay]

Whilst this is technically correct, a legally binding contract cannot legally contain clauses that are in conflict with the laws of the jurisdiction in which the contract was made. If there is a statute that says "thou shall not....", then a contract cannot say "in this case, thou can."

This is why all commercial contracts have a clause that says if any clause is deemed unenforceable by a court, then that clause is struck from the contract and the remainder is enforceable.

The EULA can not take away your legal rights.

Touche. I'm used to a different kind of rule-set, where all of the laws read: "You can absolutely do Activity_X, unless Person_Y deems that you should not."

@esemjay:

Your post is completely and utterly moot.

There's no need to 'transfer' anything. The only thing on his Steam account is Civ V. So it doesn't matter a hill of beans that he'd lose access to any other games on that account, because he doesn't have any other games on it.

So all that would technically be needed is for him to "lose" the account login info. Then someone else could just happen to "find" that info. And Steam doesn't need to know anything about any of it.

Of course, I'd change/delete all personal information, including credit card information, that's tied to the account... before I "lost" the login info and before someone else "found" it.

If he ever wanted to buy another Steam game, it's as simple as just making a new account.

"It's okay if I breach my contract, so long as I can get away with it."
"It's okay if I steal a car, so long as I forge some registration."
"It's okay if I overdraft my bank account, so long as I report my checks stolen."

I'm sure that if they really wanted to, they could afford some really awesome lawyers to try to sue you for fraud.

EDIT: Also, if they're smart, they probably keep all of the information you suggested deleting (along with a lot of other identifiable information) on file in an archive somewhere that you can't get to it.